Jolt 1,2,3, and other rantings on electricity champs

I was looking through the threads on electricity (right below), and thought it might be appropriate to separate this and the one below.

The problem was that there aren't enough electricity champs that has the appropriate synergy like how Fire and Ice is well designed. Most of SP's electricity champs are a mish-mash of other themes. In the case of a unit that is designed to be used in multiple themes, why not separate each thematic ability into one upgrade, and place a universal ability (that is not a sandbag in other themes such as Dogpile on Hyaenid Breaker) on Base Abilities?

However, I looked through some of the electricity-based champs and found that there are a lot of untapped space for design purposes. Its upgrades are either not optimal, or still have an extra spot (max of 3 choices for upgrade 1 or 2).
And as such, I made several proposition as to what is wrong with the current design of these so-called "electricity-based champs", and how to make it fair for different correlating themes that uses these same champs:

(1) Spark Crone:
Current:
Base: Spark Curse, Static Greeting, Storm Acolyte
U1: Jolt 1,2,3
U2: Pack mentality, Surge: Kanen, Elec Aura 1

Problem:
I personally have been saying the issue with Spark Crone since god knows when. I don't know what the devs are thinking, or are planning on doing with him. But its quite clear that his cost is an issue. His role is a mish mash of several themes into a single champ. Keeping his identity: Spark Curse, is already enough.
(1) Storm Aco is a remnant of the past. Its used to do wonders with a pre-nerfed Paralytic Feedback, making it hard to one-round him. With the current change to Para Feedback, and his design (losing Para Feedback), I don't know how small the value of Storm Aco on this guy. Probably almost ZILCH. I'm guessing the devs haven't played with him to understand that some of his abilities are redundant. And last question is that:
(2) Why would he get both Pack Mentality and Surge: Kanen on the same upgrade slot?

Proposed:
Base: Jolt 1
U1: Spark Curse (3N), Pack Mentality (2N), Surge: Shocked (8N) [costed same as Surge: Cursed]
U2: Static Greeting (5N), Surge: Kanen (5N), Vigor: Electricity (7N) [costed same as Vigor: Psychic]

He'd be costed at around 73 - 80 Nora
This guy would either be cheap at 73 Nora Spark Curse+Static Greeting combo, 72 Nora in Kanen as alt damage DPS crone, or 80 Nora as a DPS unit in electricity with Surge and Vigor. All three themes that he covers is covered by its respective upgrades, while keeping his cost sane at 73-80 as opposed to the current 85 Nora minimum build that gets him several sandbags from different themes.

(2) Cyclops Stormcaller
Current:
Base: Aid Defense
Current U1: L.Storm 1,2,3
Current U2: Jolt 1,2,3

Problem ->
(1) The champ is too racial-focused while having a potential design space to be splashed into electricity. Aid Defense becomes a sandbag in electric BGs.
(2) The fact that he has Aid Defense+Jolt, while forced to have Lightning Storm is inefficient. You get to choose how you wanna spend your AP, but if you L.Storm and do not use basic attack, you are basically undervaluing your unit by 10 Nora (Aid Defense+Jolt). Vice versa.

Proposed:
-2 MAXRNG, becoming 1-1 (~-17 Nora)
Base: Jolt 1
U1: Aid Defense (7N), Catalyst: Electricity (8N), L.Storm 3 (10N)
U2: Logistics:RNG (12N), Storm Acolyte (10N), Storm Field (10N)

He'd be costed at around 71-76 nora.
This way, he can be in Cyclops with Aid Defense and Logistics:RNG, he can be a tanky elec champ with Catalyst and Storm Aco, and he can also be an AoE guy with S.Field and L.Storm

(3) Cyclops Shaman
Current:
Base: Chain Lightning, Backlash
U1: Tempo, Storm Acolyte
U2: Relieve, Entangle

Problem:
(1) A bit too expensive for a 4-6 5SPD champ that doesn't one-round anything. Support his role by adjusting his cost as a support champ.

Proposed:
-1 MAXRNG (~-8 Nora)
Base: Backlash
U1: Tempo (5N), Guarded: Cyclops (8N), Storm Acolyte (10N)
U2: Spellsurge: Lightning Storm (4N), Entangle (6N), Chain Lightning (7N)

He'd be costed at around 69 - 77 Nora
His role is always Backlash for the whole SP, so its a must on base. But I feel chain lightning is trivial since he already has Entangle on U2. Best to put it in an upgrade path to make his cost more efficient. This way, he can be in Cyclops with Guarded: Cyclops, he can be a support elec champ with Storm Aco, Spell Surge and CL, and he can also be combo'ed in FF SP as a Tempo + Spellsurge champ.

(4) Voltaic Slag: How about giving him Jolt 1 on base instead of 2? Nobody likes DOT rank 2 anyways.
He'd be costed at around 70 - 82 Nora

(5) Hyaenid Breaker:
Current:
Base: Dogpile, Static Aura
U1: Static Greeting, Catalyst: Electricity
U2: Cackle

Problem:
(1) His role is a.... what? A range-attacker that has the ability to deal with champions closing in to him. Okay, that's good, but he has no Mobility. So most likely, he'd be spending 3AP to disengage, and run away 3 more spaces, only to get engaged again next turn. A ranged-attacker shouldn't be engaged by an opposing melee. His design is simply bad imo. Unless of course, if he has Mobility and Hit and Run.
(2) And his upgrades seems like rushed. Static Greeting doesn't do anything to him, and Catalyst: Electricity on a squishy ranged champ?

Proposed:
Base: Jolt 1 (3N)
U1: Dogpile (4N), Invigorate 1 (5N), Sustain: Catalyst: Electricity (8N)
U2: Cackle (4N), Initiative 1 (7N), Vigor: Electricity (7N)

He'd be costed at around 68 - 75 Nora
In Hyaenids he'd basically be an efficient alt-damage guy. Nothing else. Alternate builds include a support with Initiative + Invigorate for FF SP spot 2AP surprise for double-tapping or just to doubletap something with instant 7AP alt DMG DPS unit, or Sustain: Catalyst and Vigor:Elec for a DPS unit in electricity theme.

 

Dots are amazing on long ranged champion and this champion sees play in SP meta so i think its fine.

The rest of the stuff i agree with,however i already beat you to this:
http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/cactuar-crate-path-of-delim-edition.17965/page-30
Sok said he will look into it so electricity theme might be getting some positive attention.

 

hahaha ok then, thanks bro
hopefully the above analysis would help sok to determine the changes for next balance patch

 

... Okay T_T. I thought the coding would be easier given that both Vigor and Sustain is already in the game

 

Note: he said for an "old rune." It may make sense to implement new abilities in the future and, as a practical matter, recycling old coding in new combinations gets more value per programming hour.

 

Spark Crone is SHE. Now, about the topic, I prefer to keep her signature and Greetings in base, an just take away Elec Accolyte (or put it in Upgrades) its what is sandbagging her in both themes. Also, in Pack Upgrade Line, put an Elec choice, so she can be used in both themes.

Edit: also, liked the Voltaic slag suggestion. And we need more Elec runes. And despiste the other elements having AMP, Im fine with Elec doesn't having this ability, cause there are only few Imu/Eater/Resist to Elec anyway; if this changes, give us amp

 

This makes sense to me. But new abilities have been designed for the last two expansions and I assume they will be for the next few. Can we get a sense about the direction you plan on taking SP (at least in the short term) so we can suggest new abilities, mechanics, etc. that synergize with the last few expansions and that will fit into the next few? Speaking for myself, and I presume for @RedScarlet (who has always seemed pretty reasonable and thoughtful on the forums), we don't have any interest in creating wishlists that are unhelpful or unlikely to be implemented. I think it makes sense to suggest abilities & mechanics that can be implemented recycling old code, since those generate more bang for the buck, but any guidance on how folks should tailor their suggestions would be great.

 

Nice. So, pls Sok, make the new expansion focus on Elec BGs, and Feshs (to fix Mika and to do something with the new "Slags").

 

Here is a list of suggestions which involve no new abilities and keep all changes as simple and minimal as possible.

Static bracelet - static aura replaced with storm acolyte

Fury of the storm - change into IS/SP split champion

Cyclops stormcaller - Base abilities: Aid defense removed from base.
Jolt(rank1) added on base.

Upgrade line2:Jolt(rank1) removed from upgrade line
Jolt(rank2) remove from upgrade line
Aid defense added on upgrade line
Damage shield:electricity(rank3) added on upgrade line

Moga spark - ghernbound removed from base, -1 range

Spark crone- storm acolyte removed from base.Range to 4-5.Damage to 8.
upgrade line2: Remove pack mentality
Remove electricity aura(rank1)
Add surge:cursed

Barbarian bolt - remove wind aura and immunity:lighting from base.

Hyenid breaker: range to 1-2.Add some hitpoints and add 1 def.

Cyclops shaman - Remove chain lighting from base.
Add 1 speed.

Spark charge - Spark charge no longer costs 6 hitpoints.Ap cost set to 1.

 

Thanks. I was asking whether each expansion focuses on certain mechanics and/or themes. For example, this expansion will focus on relocation mechanics, while another expansion will focus on a fire/construct module in SP, etc. If that were the case, it would be helpful to know so we could offer suggestions targeted at whatever mechanics or themes you're focusing on. But based on your answer, it doesn't sound like each expansion is focused on a narrow mechanic/theme. Good to know.

 

Hyanid head Shrinker looks like some changes can be made, don't know what. Just find it odd having cackle and head shrink having 2-3 range while he's a 5-6 champ. Is there an ability that applies Headshrink on attack? Or would that be far too strong. Or maybe shrink the attacking opponents for 1 turn.

 

that´s crushing blows but on a ranged, i think it would be a bit too much, why not remove shrink (8nora)+ cackle(4nora) to add shrinking gaze/scion (14 nora)?

 

As long as he's not in harms way to shrink, im fine with. I rarely deploy him unless I have a clear advantage, or a last effort to walk up shrink retreat via alacricity power turn, or ionize.

 

If that's directed at me, yes I use him. Decent range and Headshrinkers cije sun handy as much as it goes against my argument. Only run him at 1 thought.

 

Tbh, I'm still liking him with Shrink / Cackle, but not both. IMO, on the plus side, it gives him the flexibility to support other Nids when you decide to focus on one champ, and a 20-DMG Minotaur Gladiator is just standing right there to bully all your other squishy Nids.

Headshrinker can shrink/cackle that other threat, so that you'll be safe the next turn. Alternatively, he can also deliver 2 more debuffs w jolt and dogpile.

IMO, on the bad side, he is too AP intensive to be fully utilized. He needs to move around for Detection, he needs to have the potential to double-tap (since he has decent damage, and being ranged), he needs to cackle or headshrink... there's just too much flexibility as to how we would spend our AP with him. Imo, this kit overload really binges on his cost.

What's really awkward is giving him Detection while he's supposed to be out of threat range. That's very awkward in terms of function and cost.

Without detection, he'd be 79 nora.
Without having both cackle and shrink, and putting them on upgrades, (U1: Cackle, Shrink [default], Stall), (U2: Jolt 1,2,3) we'd be looking at a 75 nora headshrinker with similar potential in terms of kit (U1 for debuffs), but no detection.

Eitherway, its already pretty hard to both cackle and headshrink in the same turn, while maintaining a good positioning (considering he's squishy).

Then, we also have additional room for design in the U2 of both Headshrinker and Mundunugu to be more creative. Headshrinker's Jolt 1,2,3 and Mundunugu's Rabid 1,2,3.

This can be interchanged to like Jolt, Rabid, Inhibiting Touch, or Distract. Just so that Nids gets more access to more debuff choices depending on the meta. It would help a lot to have a distract Nid on range against all those terraformers a couple of weeks ago.

TLDR
At least that's my opinion on headshrinker, don't know about other players who uses him.

I just feel the amount of kit he has is a bit too much, and oftentimes if not, I can't fully utilize all of them with the given AP and SPD of headshrinker.

 

Has anyone said anything about the Cyclonic fesh? if not, than i will elaborate why i feel it could use a buff/change in upgrades,

 

I like as is, might be nice as a 1-3 unit or 1-4 but its range feels awkward, especially ad a 2x2