Many of the new exo seem to be severely lacking

I do why do you say that ?

 

Well i was just saying i agree about the empowered : speed change, and seeing how it would only grant +1 speed and mobility and only for a set amount of turns it probably could be a higher cost decrease. Speed is very valuable but to drop from +2 speed to +1 speed and mobility is a good change and probably warrants a larger price drop like you said. A permanent speed bonus however would be an entirely different story and probably wouldn't receive a very large price drop, because over the course of the game it will pay itself off.

 

@super71 or any others

When people talk about 8 speed draw wins, are you talking about it being observed or played in recent games, or are you talking from a more theoretical standpoint.

 

the problem with 8 speed draw wins is probably more map design and spacing than 8 speed itself. 8 speed on ranged units shouldn't be a common thing though.

 

When you talk about 8 speed draw wins, are you talking about it being observed or played in recent games, or are you talking from a more theoretical standpoint?

 

Yes. Because of the use of the Folgar Swamp map, I have gained a draw win. Granted it was a 9 speed draw win, but it was still a draw win.

 

How did you get 9 speed?

That doesn't seem like a particularly draw-winny map, even if you got a 9 speed first turn champ.

I can definitely see how it would give you a font advantage but I don't know if a font advantage = a draw win unless that font also gives a tactical advantage - as in SL map.

I guess you could claim it as a draw win if you then played well enough that your opponent couldn't make up that early advantage, but I would say that wasn't then just the draw that won but the player too.

 

Fair enough. The 9 speed was from a Frenzied Pirahnid. I was able to cap his side font and deploy in it before he got there as P1.

 

I've seen some and played in games recently where draw wins have happened but I was more talking theoretically. Also there are different reasons for draw wins, it might be different from map to map and is not always due to just speed. Double deploys, ap generation, illusions, spot removal, flying, etc, can all cause draw wins on different maps. Also there are maps with cliffs and lava that can give a player a win just because he has possess, knockback, or fire eater.

 

That was what I suspected.

Imo, 8 speed has largely stopped being an issue when sok reworked the maps.

The idea that 8 speed = draw win is a relic from a previous pox which has embedded itself in peoples minds.

Not saying that draw wins don't happen, but that 8 speed champs a very minor factor compared to double deploys, no champ draws, spot removal, swallow whole... and a whole load of other potential things.

 

I underrated skeezick vanguard, he is pretty decent. He would be great if he had skeezick alliance imo.(AS AN UPGRADE NOT BASE) I wonder how much he would cost if he was 6 speed base and had skeezick alliance. resilient skeezick needs regen base, makes no sense that he has to chose either commander or regen.

 

leap 3 is terrible(overcosted, leap 2 is always better)

 

teleport 1 = 6 nora. leap 3 = 8 nora.

 

^ move to cactus pls.
fix my leap.

 

Hm?

 

I've observed it in-game, had it happen against me, had it happen for me. 8 speed should not exist in poxnora unless it has drawbacks or the champion is very expensive, 8 speed champs should also never be ranged, i'm looking at you menelaus.