Meanwhile in Germany

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ssez, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    Maybe. If so it's certainly not limited to the right wing. The left tends to demonize gun owners (at least in the US), "racists", and White Males in general for example.

    Even in Germany there's been the pushback narrative of "these **** allegations aren't so bad, clearly it's because of these 'racist' people convincing them!"

    Or, in the case of a particularly stupid Mayor, even blaming the fashion of women and their inability to physically fend off a mob of men while in a crowd.

    Again, I'm sure some of it is based on racism... "religious-ism"? *shrug* Anyway, I'm sure some of the problems are based on bigotry, and certainly some of them are caused by White men (though not White Men in the general sense).

    But in both directions it's about fictionalization, painting broad strokes of a populace, and trying to reduce complex situations down to an oversimplified state.

    What makes it worse is that this sort of political tactic only helps to further entrench and justify the other side even when they are using that same tactic just on a different scapegoat.
     
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  2. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
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  3. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

  4. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    January 21, 2016

    Merkel hit by backlash: 40 members of OWN PARTY revolt as Germany OVERWHELMED by refugees

    GERMAN Chancellor Angela Merkel is facing a backlash from her own party as fears heighten about her liberal refugee policy which has seen more than one million migrants arrive in the country.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...efugees?_ga=1.181876583.1590597614.1453601754



    I dug into why 40 members of Merkel's own party have publicly dissented, and it is clear that Germany's present situation is headed towards uber clusterfudge status. We, in MuriKa, have more than our share of self inflicted wounds too. Hopefully each nation will find the correct path forward within a few years. Time will tell. Si se puede.
     
  5. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

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  6. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I think that that the refugee crisis has always been linked to an older, and more complex, argument about the nature of the EU.

    Those who want greater national power, or who fear losing national sovereignty, can easily use the crisis to promote that view.
     
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  7. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    The purity of those supporting mass immigration is beyond reproach.

    I hope it all works out for u guys. Not gonna hold my breath.

    Incompatible subcultures are incompatible.
     
  8. ssez

    ssez I need me some PIE!

    I hope the keep they keep up their policy, its a great chance to see how such a choice plays out.

    What I find interesting is if they change it now, they admit it didn't work or that their citizens are "xenophobic" and they cater to xenophibia.

    This article is about pushback from inside merkels party.

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/merkels-party-sliding-polls-weighs-german-border-centres-142016903.html
     
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  9. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    Agreed. And as the article points out, there are those that will use the crisis to support a stronger/centralized EU (in terms of the governing body of the EU at least).

    As to who's in the right?

    Don't ask me. Probably nobody.
     
  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Turns out at least one of the "kidnapping" and "****" allegations against migrants are false:
    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160129/1033925650/russian-girl-berlin.html

    "The prosecutor's office has reconstructed data from a cell phone and obtained admissions made by the 19-year-old acquaintance of the girl, with whom she says she stayed on the night of January 12, according to DPA. The investigation has also found that the girl's acquaintance was in possession of her belongings."

    Images purported to be victims being spread around social media are also being shown to be fake:
    http://observers.france24.com/en/20160113-assaults-migrants-germany-****-fake-photos

    There are also reports of police standing around idly while this stuff was happening - which has led some to speculate that the police are actually involved somehow.

    ~

    In any case, it's, of course, reasonable to assume most/many of the allegations are true. It's just unfortunate that some people take the situation to use to their own advantage or further agendas.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
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  11. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    Well, we had people doing that sort of thing in the US, purporting a "**** culture" in US colleges and such, and inflating the number of reports/incidents.

    Very messed up in my view as it casts doubt on true incidents.
     
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  12. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    Breitbart: http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...m-no-link-cologne-sex-attacks-migrant-crisis/

    According to Breitbart, the EU Commission has declared that the December 31st attacks in Cologne had absolutely no connection to the Migrant Crisis.

    The minutes of the meeting: http://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/rep/10061/2016/EN/10061-2016-2151-EN-F1-1.PDF

    Section 8 (starting bottom of page 14) talks about some of the issues, for example, purportedly, only 40% of the migrants are actually Syrian refugees fleeing from war. At the end of the meeting, certain conclusions/points were made:

    Including but not limited to:
    "the complexity of the current situation; the challenge which the refugee crisis
    represented for the Union; the inadequacy of the results achieved so far on the
    ground in terms of managing refugee flows, and in particular
    relocations"

    "the distinction to be drawn between refugees and migrants; a reminder of the
    fact that the Union defended those who fled war and persecution, but could not
    accept other migrants"

    "he lack of administrative capacity to deal with refugees and the inadequate level
    of public acceptance in certain Member States; a suggestion that platforms for
    action be created with the Member States that were prepared to act"

    "the importance of the Commission's continuing to play its coordinating role and
    sounding the voice of reason to defuse tensions
    and counter populist rhetoric;
    however, the need to respond to the concerns of European citizens, particularly
    by stressing that Europe was also a union of security and values"

    and the main point of the Breitbart article:

    "the unconditional rejection of false associations between certain criminal acts, such as the attacks on women in Cologne on New Year's Eve, and the massinflux of refugees:"

    Also:

    "support for a reform of the Dublin system, despite the resistance this would
    undoubtedly provoke
    from the Member States; the importance of the idea of
    sharing the burden of taking in refugees;"

    "the idea of putting the emphasis on the economy in the sense that the successful integration of migrants depended on Member States' prosperity, and vice versa"

    "support for the idea of including the issue of migration in trade negotiations and
    economic diplomacy with third countries, particularly in Africa, by making this
    a condition of such relations for the European Union; the suggestion that such
    initiatives
    be taken with the European Investment Bank and private enterprise"


    There were also a number of comments talking about taking further action against human trafficking and illegal immigration.



    The main take away I see of this is three things:

    1. The EU Commission will continue to engage in propaganda to continue to support the influx of refugees and migrants.

    2. There is not currently enough means to distinguish between actual refugees and those entering amidst the flow, to the point that the majority aren't even refugees of war. And that there are continued problems with illegal immigration on top of this.

    3. The EU Commission will use economic and trade incentives/requirements to attempt to compensate/bribe/threaten member states into accepting (more?) Refugees.
     
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  13. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    The disconnect from reality displayed by the elite of Europe is staggering. Interesting times in the near and far future. May all live long and prosper.
     
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    That said, I am pretty sure that when Frats put up signs that say "NO MEANS YES" that there is a problem on campuses on some level.
     
  15. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    war refugees often times are going to be mentally messed up from what they experienced and the lifestyle they lived. i have a hard time feeling sympathy for germany tho.... i dont exactly associate the country of germany with positivity. whenever i think germany i automatically think ****/hitler.
     
  16. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei

    The National Socialist German Workers' Party


    G
    ermany has greatly evolved during the last few generations, as far as I can tell. Respect.
     
  17. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    or, and stay with me here.

    people that have the benefit of the facts and actually being there are better connected to reality than a libertarian nutter living in the U ASS A halfway across the globe.
     
  18. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    Er, I'm pretty sure the staff and writers of Breitbart London are actually in Europe (or at least have people in Europe), and as a news agency have access to the facts via their reporters, the news feed, sources, etc.

    So not sure why you'd be criticizing them on this basis.
     
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  19. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    I'm critisizing DarkJello and him thinking we should quickly throw all refugees and immigrants into the ocean or something to punish them for the acts of a few.

    he seems to think he is better connected to events from halfway across the planet. wich is why I blame him personally for acts of genocide by the US marines in the philipines 100 years ago.
     
  20. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Not my position on immigration to Europe at all.

    I tooted, and that refuted your 2nd paragraph.
     

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