immobile is -30 nora bb(if you plan on moving say byebye to all the benefits). Edit: forgot to mention she isn't immune to knockback like hold the line.
Take away Regeneration and Heal Mass change it to Empathy for the first rank and a rank of Heal Self for 2,3, and 4. Take damage heal self spread it through Empathy. Seems like it'd eliminate the possibility of her becoming a super support champ and for future champs you can design for Heal Champion and Heal Mass both unrestricted to trigger the quest. Seems like it'd make something more meant as a sort of battle cleric more viable for a benefit for the self, while still offering the support role, something along the lines of Finlord's Neophyte for future use. Eliminating support skills in Quest Support eliminates running into the future problem like the Snowspinner where you want to use that skill on the champion like how you don't want to edit it because Snowspinner already has it even if it's not used.
I read the thread, you want it to be another support ability Sok doesn't want to cause super support by granting it another Heal ability where it has Heal Mass in it's current iteration. Pitching your ideas to Sok doesn't mean any ideas for rework have to placate you and what you want.
The problem is she doesn't benefit from the ability until trigger 4. Why would you want regen on a champ that shouldn't be in combat? Likewise why would you want heal-self on a champ that isn't in combat? or should we all charge in a champ with 3-5 range to benefit from regen/heal-self. I'm ok with what Sok suggested (rank of regen to the champ it was used on). Is it wrong that a support:ally ability should support an ally? If your ranged support does sustain some damage, heal mass works to heal her as well as nearby friendlies anyway. Currently the Support:Ally is a back-loaded support ability with no real benefit until it reaches trigger 4 and it's 12 nora so it's hiking up her cost.
Sok said it has technical issues with the possibility of changing it to targeted regen, if the ability is reworked there's the possibility that the champ gets re-worked a bit is as well, the narrow minded view that the champ is otherwise going to stay exactly the same is just that narrow minded in addition Sok mentioned the future use of the ability so not in regards just to Snowspinner which the final line was to bear in mind to avoid super heals by doubling up support abilities, Sok also mentioned that part of the reason he didn't want to use Heal Champion ranks was that Snowspinner currently had it even if it's not used .'. the precedent that there could be a potential FUTURE conflict with a champ he might want to give Quest Support to and Heal Mass could arise .'. I offered a solution away from that and not just looking at Snowspinner and further more Snowspinner in her current iteration as if it's set in stone. If you did in fact read my post those reasons are stated in my proposal I barely touched on fixing the current perceived issues with Snowspinner since even without Quest Support in any form at all I'd call her a more than fair champ with her kit.
I already agreed with sok and I accept what he proposed. I disagree with your suggestion. I also didn't suggestion ranks of heal champ. IF the ability was changed to what Sok said how would it be narrow minded to view her abilities as being unaffected it doesn't make her kit overpowered.
Good for you, but suggestions don't have to get your seal of approval to be made. Sok said feel free to make suggestions, not check with KingJad to make sure he likes any suggestions you have.
Am I not allowed to express my disagreement with a suggestion? A few people agree with my take on it so I'm definitely speaking for a few more than myself. Your suggestion would only appease you.
I said I did agree with sok because you have some weird take on a public conversation that isn't hard to misread. You're also pointing out things other people said and using them against me as if I said them.
Sure you are, just do it better. You didn't exactly lead with constructive criticism and you kinda appear to not want to see more suggestions anyway. I'm pretty sure people would in general suggest things they think would help and that they would like to see. We simply need more people weighing in and suggesting.
I have no problem with new suggestions. His suggestion just didn't help with the problem that was presented in this thread.
I really like Quest: Support as is actually. Regen and Heal Mass are both abilities that, while useful, are not needed at the start of the game. Getting them later in the game (at a discount) is totally fine. Regen on her is also fine, as (due to her range) she is often engaged in skirmishes as opposed to outright fights and this is where regen really shines. BTW, a shout out to whoever designed her first 3 upgrades in line 1, as they are all awesome and I would play with them all (seriously, well done on that, serious upgrade options to consider).
