- One issue doesn't have to correlate to the other. I'm not sure why "Aggressive/Offensive" somehow means boring? I don't care if it's nerfed or not...as I said it already has been nerfed....I'd prefer nexus aura simply be removed from B.guardian BUT replaced with something not boring and but also not "phalanx-y". Cuz to the average gamer...if you asked "between aggressive/offensive playstyle v.s. Phalanx playstyle...which do you think will result in more boring gameplay?" ... I have a hunch how that would go.
Well if i wanted to go full berserk i would play UD Barbarian guardian is a middlechamp between paladins and barbarian, having 20 different melee/ranged champs that only have aggressive abilities is bad for playing. it might look fun on the paper, but if you dont have sacrifice or other ability to switch dying champs for new ones its just bad. having barbarians taking 5hp / turn if they dont attack is making them shoebox almost, compare brutality barbarian with tortun fishkisser he would lose every time they fought because he has no defensive ability at all, not to mention that on most maps he would have lost 20-30hp before engaging if the enemy is annoying. i really like the barbarian idea, but without the holy theme they are really bad configured atm. ive tried them all alot the last few months. without bastion, zedin (who both aint brutal barbarians but more paladins) they are really weak. barbarian archer - 1* ranged, really dull and boring upgrades for 70-72nora, so outranged barbarian bolt - 1* never ever got it do any good, if he sits back and wait until MoV have given him 4-5dmg his lightning storm might do some good. make him range 1 physical so he has phys+elec damage. warchief: storm clan needs to be changed or put to an upgrade, give him swap, teleport, stun, but not 5 upgrade options that are kinda meh. barbarian commander - 2* sure he can give battlemaster/commander but not both, give him throw axe, upgrade2: tough 2 barbarian diviner - 3* is it a healer or a dps? move the upgrades so i can pick both healing or both dps not one of each type. enchant magic is cool but i dont use her anymore because she isnt good enough in healing or dps. barbarian druid - 5* best healer. + detection+flying barbarian elite - 1* a perfect example of too much offensive power on melee unit, even with 55hp, tough1 he is useless 80nora should give alot more. barbarian guardian - 4,5* our mcgyver, almost perfect and autoinclude barbarian huntress - 3* remove those lay traps and give them to any unit that is in the front instead, only running her for detection, her range + her pet. or give her stealth and keep the traps. brutality barbarian - 2* i love this one, so much i use him even if he is needing a barbarian druid to keep him alive until he gets into combat, or a barbarian guardian to hold his hands and swap places. also horrible upgrades, berserk attack on a unit with thirst for battle? why would i wanna remove defense that he soo much needs in certain fights. and i hate that impatient. ... IS have too much offensive barbarians they are not giving eachother any synergy or backup besides barbarian guardian with swap+shroud+nexus aura, and you want to destroy that? flavor is cool, but no stealth, no mobility, no synergies if looking at brute barbarians. they so need the paladins to carry them
@Hierokliff - Stealth barb on the way hype! ...player created expansion thank god! Good discussion though...let's continue - First, I am not crazy about the current barbarian mechanics (warchief/pride of sarng. blahh) or sea of beaters that is still prevalent (some good tweaks by sok over time but still a ton of beaters) and have been a strong advocate for change. But Barbs have had so many changes that this iteration is better then many of the previous. Sok has added some champ based synergy at least but the theme could definitely use some spell/relic/equip based help...pride of sarng. and warchief inaug. are garbo. - I think there is a better way to add defensive characteristics and abilities to a theme without it always gravitating to "Clump everything in a blob and inch forward". Nexus aura just exposes how crutch it is since it makes one dimensional champs harder to blow up.. I think Sok explored this with Minotaurs, meaning how to get these beaters to not get blow up instantly by having gap closers and range mitigation, but barbs shouldnt be mino clones but it shows it's possible to be aggro and have some defensive characteristics without just being dorfs or paladins. These abilities are just some examples of how to incorporate defense but giving a different playstyle then the norm IS to barbs... Bodyguard - I think this in combination with an ability like phantom dash or enrage would make a great "Barbarian Guardian" type setup. Even alone it adds more flexibility. Scrapper - This ability is another solid example of how to promote offensive play with a defensive reward. Aid Defense - This on bastion is an elegant way to make a defensive ability promote aggressive play style without having to clump to benefit as well. It's unfortunately on a hero and an expensive one but maybe that balances. Swap - Is totally fine, it is very shamanistic which barbs have access to and what not...but as you said Barb guardian is auto because he single handedly solves a lot of the themes issues but also fits in good stuff bg's . I think some of the more "boring" barbs could get some of the love spread their way from him. Bolt - Would be an interesting mechanic to put on a barb equipment "Chieftain's stave" gives equipped champion X and if it's a barbarian it get's Bolt. Help them gap close so they don't get blown up before even engaging. ... I plan to make another barb idea thread to address the remnants of the issues with "incite" and "nexus aura" and how to replace one and remove the other without killing the theme. By adding some synergy and champ tweaks elsewhere. Obv there is a paladin barbarian kinship so that's something that can be further explored besides just commander and race overlaps etc.
I disagree with barbarians being really weak Barbarian archer- Pin down + slam from fury of the storm= damn good damage barbarian bolt- is sub-par I agree Barbarian commander- 71 nora for his monster stats + battle master is pretty dang good Barbarian diviner- Perfect as is, she is a healer that can attack and cause illuminate to drop opposing defense to 0 barbari druid- detection, cleanse, and heals, she is like the ultimate swiss army knife Barbarian elite- with him getting tough I might actually try and run him now, I think he could lose execute and get a cheaper ability and be fine barb guardian- he's a boss and needs no changes barbarian huntress- 70+ health deployed for 77 nora along with a trap and 6 range, her upgrade lines are pretty dumb but she is mostly deployed for the free meat brutality barbarian- impatient is just a dumb ability on him All in all maybe 2 of the runes you listed were bad the rest are damn good, barbarians are very strong at the moment and are easily a top tier bg in ironfist. I agree that ironfist could certainly get some different utility champs, but they aren't in too bad of a spot right now to be honest. Didn't see you mention savage shield man, with shroud and flanking he works quite well with barbarians. Good post though, and it was interesting to see another perspective on these runes. I can definitely see what your saying about them needing more unique abilities and synergy.
Did just go from the top, i agree many dont need a change, but some really do, didnt want to ruin this nexus aura nerf thread. Barbarians are ok, maybe top 5 theme in IS .-) meta & holy are way better. dwarf and wings might be better then brutal barbarians theme. but if just going on race barbarian and allowing bastion+zedin, they are really good. just let bastion or zedin die so the warchief moves to another fighter then restore death and redeploy. but then its bastion,zedin,purebloods,druids,guardians and then you can add 5-6other barbarian for some meat/flanking/flavor i dont think they need any unique abilities, just change some empty upgrade slots for scrapper,dodge,block,tough 1, combat awareness 1, poison, poison traps, stealth, heal self, hidden:rock should be their thing. think it would be so easy to just add some basic abilties here and there as upgrades to start with. sure they will not turn an interrogator nto our next Bastion, but maybe i wouldnt laf when looking at her upgrades and wonder why 74-86nora for this junk?
