PoxNora imProvement Projects #1

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, May 12, 2015.

  1. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Lower ranks of Bersker should be recosted to better fit what they provide. For instance, rank 1 gives a net of -6 in abilities and stats, but only costs -2. Rank 3, however, lines up appropriately.
     
  2. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Careless used to be -5, so it made more sense then.
     
  3. itzdaT

    itzdaT Member

    Sokolov - Please add "indicators" for the in-game timers. I really miss this feature, and I am pretty sure that all beginners would love to have it...for example I equipped my champ with a bloodthirsty blade, which means that the champ will die in 6 turns, however there is no way to check that how many turns are "left on him" before he dies. It is annoying. :|
     
  4. Elves Rule

    Elves Rule I need me some PIE!

    What, like the aoe markers and stuff? That would be nice. Would also let you do stuff like time enemy skill cooldowns
     
    Sirius likes this.
  5. itzdaT

    itzdaT Member

    Um I meant stuff like:
    I wanna see that how many turns are left on a champ before he dies, when he is equipped with a bliidthirst blade...another example:
    I would like to see that how many ranged attacks are left on the draksar rocketeer. [After 4 ranged attacks, his range will be 1.] etc. etc. There are tons of stuff like these in the game.
     
  6. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    Desecrated zone rank 1 costs 6 nora while rank 2 costs 2 nora. I get that Desecrated zone 1 exists for Zarimiahl but can u take it off all champs and give those that do have it rank 2. to my knowledge Mairdreth is the only one with it and she could use the 4 nora decrease as well.
     
  7. Burcho

    Burcho I need me some PIE!

    I'd like to see the bazaar tab during all games (maybe not ranked meh), now it is quite random and only pushes people to "advertise" in the global tab. It resets if you have played a pvp game and some pve games.
     
  8. xxiowa13xx

    xxiowa13xx Well-Known Member

    This game didn't go down the drain with SOE bcuz it was p2w ... it's because the learning curve was too high, and it 's fundamentals were unbalanced. Great direction its moving in, but you can't build a wonderful building on a crappy foundation. This game needs to be scrapped, players given appropriate credit, and start from the ground floor. There's no room for new players with thousands of runes, match making gap unreal too overwhelming. Graphics are great (if you already have been playing) but this is the 21st century.... need 3d, more interactive, deff a revamp if you want to compete on ANY level of the gaming market... Bane Shift i mean Nickelodeon browser games are captivating. and after the basis have been made...SIMPLE DAMN RUNES. Hearthstone, league of legends, Firk even real chess ARE BASIC ABILITES. Do 1-4 main things max, maybe 2 other for exotic or whats considered the "legends" (the queen, legend hearthstone runes, ect. (i know not same genere) but it's about the concepts keep in mind. Not 4 abilities...5 passive...3 unknown factors unless you are reading chat or hovering over every rune on the very bottom left of picture) .... i've stuck around bcuz i like the concept of the game, but Firk man, there's zero advertisement, after a remake MAKE IT MOBILE (duh). Just crazy how great this game could be (first one of its kind, could be the pioneer) the league of legends in its genre but we keep asssFirking what SOE came up with.
     
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Why do people think this is a good idea or even remotely possible? And what is "appropriate credit?" What business/game does this where they run a game for 8 to 10 years, then make a sequel and give everyone the new game for free basically?

    Yes, the game is pretty old now, and has a lot of content, so this is certainly a concern.

    One of the reasons Pox has remained viable for such a long time is because it's more complex than games like Hearthstone. While it does mean it can't be as mainstream as other things, it has allowed Pox to capture a particular, more niche, demographic.

    I also find the comparison to League of Legends funny because that game is just as complex as PoxNora in many ways - it's just that in action oriented games complexities are less overt, particularly since you control only one character at a time (who has at a minimum 7 abilities, mind you), but a lot of Pox "bugs" and "issues" have analogies in league of legends actually, including burden of knowledge and ambiguity in interactions between abilities.

    That said, the various Pox revamps that have happened have all attempted to simpify things/runes, but whether or not they have been successful in anything lasting is a different story. There is, of course, Conquest of Champions made by Kihon Games that is basically what you suggested, so you might want to take a look and see how that feels.

    You will be glad to know that Pox has advertised a lot over the years, and is currently also advertising.
     
    themacca likes this.
  10. xxiowa13xx

    xxiowa13xx Well-Known Member

    Yea i don't mean to sound like a ****** or anything, (texts cannot capture tone n such). Iv'e been playing on n off for years now, and basically the gist of my message is that i really have enjoyed this game but its becoming harder n harder n stay into with that all these other games on the market. Trader is dead, rank system and just the overall UI need an update. This game is good but i want it to be "mainstream" obv never as big as hearth, league ect.. but it can be so much bigger than what it is just feel like were beating a dead horse doing nothing but fine tuning runes. And i feel like some drastic changes need to occur. Sometimes i wish i went to game design/programming or what not solely to join this company (or blizzard not going to lie) and to make this game what i envision it can be, but i'm pretty ignorant on what exactly goes into my vision, and for that im sorry, but tuning runes is not doing anything but satisfying the what?..200players. Drastic revamp man, lets get investors interested.. team up / sell equity to join Riot or Blizzard. Have a test group, ppl want to have fun just like picking up a girl, first 5min are make or break... and read reviews online they all say good concept yet boring. When you can watch this game on twitch... and people actually watch it... then you're doing it right...

    i just mean like if a massive revamp were to go on give players say like "x" amount of free packs or exp boost ect ect with a "new game/sequel" if you will. (thinking along the lines of like player beta rewards for when live comes out) i guess is a good example... but i know that might upset the lil group of people that have poured money into this game. .............................................maybe try what magic does, some runes/cards obv need to be banned from ranked... and have sets for current meta in ranked, old sets for a different tourney ect.....DO WORK. anything bro-hons
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
  11. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Mindthief Creeper pays 8 nora for Adaptation. It also pays 16 nora for 8 points of DMG in order to -- theoretically -- use some of the abilities it steals; it has no basic attack. In combination, this amounts to 24 nora of stats and abilities that the Creeper can only use in a particular set of circumstances: it needs to be within 5 tiles of an opponent when they use an ability that scales off of DMG. This puts the unit far outside the standard cost curves. It should either garner a manual modifier, or have some element of its design reexamined.
     
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It currently has a -5 modifier. How much do you feel it should be?
     
  13. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    If nothing else will change, a heck of a lot more than that. Maybe 10 at min, closer to 15?
     
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Well, there are 2 approaches to a design like this. We give the DMG for mostly free (which would be a modifier of 13), or we don't have the DMG there in the first place.
     
  15. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Maybe just remove the damage entirely, coupled with removing the manual mod? Seems like a simple change, streamlines the design.
     
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I feel like some modifier is still appropriate, as I'd say Adaptation's value is slightly lower if you don't have damage.
     
  17. arthur

    arthur The King of Potatoes

    The greatest problem is that this game is so complex that nobody is fully satisfied and has a different solution to its "problems", lol. But I have to say that I kinda feel like xxiowa13xx feels. So, I'll say what I think:

    1 - PVP. This one needs a good incentive to be played. At the moment, single player is the most interesting option if you want to get runes. A PVP match can be pretty time consuming and the reward will not be a great thing, or it can be pretty fast and frustrating for one side that got trampled due to the match balance. So, for PVP, my suggestions would be:
    a) to create leagues, like common, uncommon, rare, exotic, legendary and limited, where you would be allowed to use runes up to the type of the respective league to create your battlegroup and play - theoretically, this would help to balance the matches; and
    b) to create a better sense of progress while playing in pvp, by:
    b.1) giving rewards in gold for winning (or even losing) the match based not only in the time length that the match had, but considering achievements in battle. These achievements should be like those that the game already have, considering as well those applied to the runes in the end of the match for xp gain, also, could be new ones, based, for example, in the number of fonts captured, most number of kills using magic, most number of champions/artifacts/equipaments deployed/destroyed, most number of magics used in a match, how intense was a dispute to conquer a font (based in how many turns opposing champions were in the same font zone disputing it)... and other many things that could be difficult to occur, like being able to keep alive a champion with less than 5 HP during a certain number of rounds, be able to finish a match with all champions with full HP, win a match without using magics/artifacts/equipaments... things like that; and
    b.2) creating goals for the player, like win X matches in a league to win a pack with runes within the quality up to the respective league class (better with runes of the faction of your choice). These pack would have a chance in each slot to come with a rune one rank above of the respective league, helping even more with the sense of progression.
    c) to create each 2 weeks or month a set of runes that are banned or limited to the use of only 1 in the battle group in pvp until the next update. These would help to end with exploits with bugs and would help to improve the balance in the matches if a rune reveals to be too OP.

    2 - Trading "card" game. I love the forge and the free rune per victory, but it's is killing this part of the game. IMO, it would be good if you could use the forge to destroy those runes that you have and nobody wants to make gold to buy more packs. And would be even better with you guys had a system that monitors what people are destroying with more frequency to have a notion of what is considered useless by the players and be considered for future changes.

    3 - Packs. Now the game have a great number of runes and the runes distribution per pack should be revised. Now I think that each pack should come with the commons, 3 uncommons, 2 rares and 1 exotic, with the chance of coming a legendary in the place of this exotic. Also, I like that idea of faction packs - these packs would be more expensive, since it is guaranteed to come with things that you "want".

    4 - Single Player campaigns. Should be applied to them something similar to what happens with the Nefari Resurrection, but with a catch to make things more interesting, like a caution saying that if you lose a match in the legendary, a random rune in your battle group will be destroyed.. So, by completing it on legendary, you should gain a limited edition rune, vinculated to the account, that corresponds to the "protagonist" of that campaign. This would be a incentive to people buy and play single player campaigns.

    5 - New players. Besides those battlegroups for rental, to these players should be granted 30 common runes of the faction of their choice, that would be vinculated to their account, so they can really start. In a game like this I think that those battlegroups for rental are kinda boring, since you have no option of customization (and this is one of the best parts of this game). The method for choosing these 30 runes could be like what happens in hearthstone's arena, where 3 aleatory options appears and you chose one. Of course here should be some "manipulation" to don't happens to come too many magics, artifacts or equipaments and the new player start his experience with a completely inviable battlegroup. And, after the new player had played a certain number of matches in PVP, those vinculated runes could be turned into normal runes. Could be used those * thing to represent that a rune is vinculated to the account.

    6 - Graphics. I'm ok with how the game looks, it does well the job. Wouldn't mind a revamp in some old artwork (specially because the newest runes looks beautiful and the old ones reminds me of the early days of magic the gathering, lol).

    7 - Abilities. Some need revision in certain runes, like the darkmarsh defiler that lost the defiling corpse, that should be at least an upgrade option for this rune, others I think that are kinda OP, like the arrow eater, that I think it should be only to physical ranged attacks (in true this ability is like a immunity for ranged attacks with a bonus buff, it's not an eater because it does not recover HP anymore and the arrow part is misleading, because it's not limited to that type of attack). Also the relation that some abilities have between them could be analyzed, for example, immunities and eater ability, if a rune have fire eater and gains immunity fire, the eater ability should prevail and not the other way around.

    But, in the end, you guys ended with the great barrier that this game had when it was a pay to play game disguised as free to play. So, now is just a matter of making the right choices to make this game grow. I hope that I was able to give at least some useful ideas.
     
  18. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Fleshblight probably doesn't need a change, but does he have a +4~+5 modifier?
     
  19. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    I don't have any info of it having a positive modifier, although it is currently paying 5 nora for its abilities - meaning it pays 56 nora for its stats. Given the recent change in HP formula I'd say this cost is due to its 66 base HP, but still feels a bit off.

    For the sake of comparison, Yeti Avalancher's stats cost 48 nora. Both have same damage and speed, but avalancher has +2 def and -16 base HP. I'm well aware that def is now cheaper, but I can't see this stat difference costing 6 nora to Fleshblight.

    My hunch is, if there is a manual modifier, it is because of Fleshweaver Witch. I'm also positive that lumbering ST beasts also have modifiers( although not only because of Lumbering) and it does make sense as both themes have champions that are able to remove a -20 nora ability from more than a champion, at once(despite not being permanent in Zombies' case). It's really hard to get a formula to balance that, so I fully support such modifiers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2015
  20. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Lumbering is now -18.

    The calculation for the stats was based on the most recent estimate, specifically, cost of HP = 10*ln(HP). Using that, the cost of Avalancher seems exactly according to formula.

    As for the whole Fleshweaver thing -- yeah, no idea how to handle that. I sorta wish Fleshweaver didn't exist for several reasons.
     

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