I believe one of the revamp goals was to keep champs to a limited number of roles, it may be that this suggestion fills to many.
The main thing about his recent rework was spell presence manipulation, resonance was just a counter and posses is the new thing that makes little sense from a game standpoint. You could give him 3 ranks of sentry on the second path then.
Nefari Siphon is dealing too much dmg. Between Rend 5 from doombringer and burn 5 from siphon, folks are just keeling over. Its ok from doombringer cause his cost accounts for it fairly. Siphon though, either needs a cost raise or a different upgrade than burn. Drain, Lifedrain Aura, Torch or anything that would work as a siphoning like ability... would make for a nice replacement. Would make him less of a multi purpose champ. Also thanks for making some more demons out of those nifty spiders, in particular... cinderpede.
Familiar would be improved a lot if it could have a build that had both flame charge and tempo(this so he can be deployed before PoV and flame charge immediately), or favor and fire charge(this was my preferred build post revamp).
How do people feel about the rend 1,2,3 upgrade path? It's on loads of UD champs. Personally I only ever take rend 1 as I don't feel like the cost is justified - is this a common view or is it just me? Rend 1 +0 Rend 2 +3 Rend 3 +6
Yeah on melee its no big, rank 3 dots on range is a powerful thing and its everywhere right now (all factions)
Wall of text incomming redcaps could use +5 nora, they have 1:1 hp to nora atm (with banner) balefire needs something not to be just a worse raider aspect of oblivion costs too much bok warden could use -5 nora doom is too expensive, but that might be a good thing gloombringer is outclassed by nefari reaper hekatian arbiter seems 10 nora too expensive I dont like bloodguard, get rid of pet and focus more on main champ imo Voidraker lost all that made her what she was, now she cant disable a champ with confuse + void touch and she is not a reliable tank either having lost both bleed and life siphon, void shield is now a non factor i really dont like conduit on griefbrearer, it is so easy to just instagib him with globals, i would appreciate a non conduit upgrade option (i would even pay nora for vourneability there) pit dragon is too expensive, needs exer or 7 spd to justify cost servile brute could use -20 nora and it would still most likely not be played Soulbleeder and and soulthirster seem to be too expensive, mainly thirster with minimal starting damage succubus could use -5 nora Unhigned bok is unreasonably expensive ireguard seems a bit expensive, not sure if his abilites justify the cost
Between Accrue, Mutli 1/2 and 6 speed Abyssal Fiend is pretty much the cheapest 8 speed unit UD has (costs 63-66) I'd like to see Pin Down return to Warden...the biggest allure in using her was trapping the stuff you revealed. Honestly though I wish they just made her ranged, melee 'humps' for attacks are so weird with her bow wielding. With all the large champions running around it's really apparent UD really lacks capabe large units that are actually worthwhile (and the only ones who are viable are, by a large majority, attack: fire). On a semi-related note Colossal should not affect units with Hunter: Giant. For Void Shield to actually have impact Voidraker needs to either be tankier or have healing via life siphon again. As it is now, it's pretty much a huge sandbag. Would start with returning 2 def, at least. Bloodguard is a unit whose crippling range and health makes her a support unit who is only good for Drive... It always felt like you paid for the pet, and I always liked the idea of getting rid of it and making her better, but that's magnified 5 times now. I'd like to see her 1-2 returned and Defensive Strike back, for synergy with the pet. Otherwise completely redesign/price her without access to the pet. Blood-based support rune, maybe 3-4 or 1-2. Agreed, I don't see myself ever taking Rend 3, should be closer to +2 and +4, at least and even then I'd still take the cheapest option. Things in general I'd like to see returned: A cheap source of swap 3 Relocate Foe Hallucinogenic (I miss this a lot on the Deceiver, but he's still good so on some other unit would be fine).
The only problem I see with rend (dots in general) its a jeck of alot better on ranged champs and this need reflected in their base cost.
I just wanted to stop in and say that minotaurs are still doing fine and all of them are viable options within their theme. The only thing I would like to see in the future are minotaurs that are outside of the beater role and another source of mino magic dmg would be welcome, though this comment might be out of the scope of the revamp. I'd also like to second that dot costs be revised in regards to melee champs vs ranged champs Thanks for the help badger EDIT: I haven't had a chance to play with malandur yet (I don't have him), so my first comment doesn't apply to him. Just going by appearances he seems overshadowed by instigator, flamecrusher, and fury, which all share the same role as him. EDIT 2: There are also a lot of bugs with dimension door
I also think Fire Eater, or Fire Immunity, is a must have base ability on Maxxarek, simply due to his maneuverability... or lack thereof.
I like Deep Elf Mercenary and fire dancer and temptress now. They suddenly actually work well now. i don't think they are over the top. It seems silly to make Deep Elf Fanatic, an Exo, have to pick between surge: demon and Pounce. But as a deep elf theme player, I am liking the changes overall, to what I've seen. I was upset at first. but once I played with them a bit, i could see that they seemed to play better together.
I'm not a very skilled player or have much experience, but many champs seem bland, I have gone over most of them (I left out stitched as agirgis made proposals elsewhere and he knows them best) I tried not to propose op things, but tried to get some more options on champs who only have 2 options in an upgrade path, bring back lost abilities and get some more synergie with trail firewall and try to find some things to make shoebox runes more interesting. angel of pain magic attack please ash demon knockback in shadowspawn/still life path (only has 2 options anyway) balefire knight: swoop in fire resist path, keep resist 1-3 bunny lord: regal presence/majestic in second path with camaderie/lava storm or even better instead of leap 1-2 in first path captive lorekeeper: council spells/spell aegis/relieve instead of death nova electricity (or punishing aura) cavernspawn: rend/kill frenzy/deep wounds instead of 3x rend corrupted overlord: scale armour/collosal or knockback as third option with the 2 water options deep elf monk: nohkando in second upgrade deep elf ritualist: sustain/blood for nora in first path flowing ember: hallucinogenic or fascinate with searing aura and fire accolite path hook fiend repulsion/battle drum in latch on/bind path deep elf temptress: tame beast, summon snake, poison, sting, fascinate, dispell, abash (she seemed very boring, yet cheap). Still 5 range sucks. demonologist: ranged again, loyalty in summon imp path as third option flame skitter: same range as flame skitter form (jk, nerf skitter form) gloombringer: goblin thievery (only on 2 goblins anymore; no idea what 44 hp 0 def life siphon unit still does), so preferably leech vitality greater pitspawn: frightfull blows in second path grundel alpha: path one: improve speed regen 1-2, path two: horrific howl, frightful blows, reflection (make it more interesting then the regular one) lavaspout: lavawalker -> lava born murk demon: conceal, psychic aura in first path magma/norafire elemental: immunity fire in first path (with terraform lava) which seems logical to me nightfall spider: windstriker in first path with cloak nefari soul torch: fire aura instead of a damage shield fire nefari messenger: secure fonts with regen path nefari guardian: font defender in either path nefari griefbearer: depression in conduit path nefari griefsinger: deafening aura with sonic aura path ripdemon alpha: fire feed with regeneration path, intimidating in damage shield path sheoul magus: path one -Attack charged 2/ Abuse charged 2/ Ally Forsaken Waste or defile corpse path 2 -Charged attack/ Life siphon/ life drinker (loses bleed and shatter), range 1-2 or 2-3 siege monger: crushing charge or trample in second ability, siege seems appropriate toosoulcrawler: petrifying gaze in massive leap path succubus: fascinate instead of charm 1 unhinged bok: hostile in enrage path (you control this and good with manic) edited with some ideas from another thread
Prince Malandur looks overcosted, though I have not played an actual game with him yet so I will reserve further judgement for now. I do wish that his first upgrade path was Gore/Bind/Exertion 3 instead of just Exertion 1/2/3. Ember Wasp is undercosted.
Malandur is decent, I use him mostly for regal presence. He's a unit which gets a bullseye marked on his back pretty quickly, and bringing him into melee range often results in him being one rounded before I can use him to full potential. Comparably, the battlemage is in the same cost range and is also seen as a high priority threat, but is more durable and mobile.
Stitched First needs Transfer Life 2, Relocate Relic, or Psychic Ping 2 on base to be worth its current nora cost. Stiched Merged should lose Exertion 1/2/3 in favor of something else...I really don't like Exertion and Tough on the same champion...seems counter productive to have a Loss of Life price on a champion so expensive with Tough, considering Tough does not reduce Loss of Life. Not sure what to replace that upgrade path with yet.
Does anyone else think angel of pain is a little low compared to the other angels? I wish she had attack magic and a bit better range, although escalation is pretty cool on her I guess it doesn't really make up for the lack of usefulness compared to others angels since we have enough damage in UD already.
Put Torch as an upgrade path with fire acolyte so that we can choose between them? It'd make her a decent ranged unit in a Fire BG or an anti-healer if that's what you want her to be. Acolyte and Torch clash too much for it to be useful.
