Rune Discussion: Nefari Messenger (Week 4)

I think annex should just be removed. It is a minimal impact ability - to the extent that it does almost nothing - and it isn't well represented visually.

Other than that, the problem is obvious and others have explained it, life siphon is redundant on a champ with regen. The easiest fix is simply to remove it for -10 Nora.

Though personally I've never seen why she is all healy in the first place.

 

@IMAGIRL what about regen 2 on base she got no healing capabilities which would be annoying

 

UD isn't meant to have readily available healing. Not against it, but I would prefer it be on the upgrade list. Putting it on base just drives her cost up 4. That's why it is in UP2

 

Needs more options in the first path before I could support this.

 

What would you like? It's widely accepted that she should have Initiative. Feel free to recommend anything. Something else that could go there might be Reinforcement.

 

That makes it sound like Initiative should be on base, then. I'd suggest Dictate, Ready and Tormented for path 1 while Initiative is moved to base.

Also, -1 for Ravish. Expedite and Rebuke are interesting, though. Relieve would synergize with Tormented depending on the conditions she snags.

 

I miss the old diplomat ability that global pacified when two were deployed.

 

Which would increase her nora cost. Keep initiative as an upgrade (but default) and we could set other abilities to the other slots in that path if we wanted to.

 

Very interesting suggestion.

• Dictate costs, an ungodly 12 nora though. It would also increase her cost very high even on upgrades.
• Tormented is just not her style -imho- though it could synergize with Relieve.

Ideally we would like to keep her between 76-84. With a default between 77-79. Messenger was a pretty standard include for most bgs as a support with damage if needed back when she was just 77 nora. Got more suggestions?

Lets keep in mind that she is a Rogue. We could have her with Initiative 1/Escape/Cloak on UP1 Just some extra thoughts.

In about a day this thread will be locked.
(There is a surprise happening next week. Possibly 2 if I can manage it.)

 

I'm relativity certain about my speed pricing from 7 to 6, and adding Ready 1. I am not sure though how much damage is worth. I might suggest her damage go from 9 to 7, and we could possibly do a slightly more expensive upgrade path keeping the same expected cost for her min-max.

EDIT: For the record though. I personally don't think she needs her UP1 change to have access to wild amount of different ability combinations. I think having her UP2 changed is enough, and less excessive.

Her primary role should be support.

 

Factions are so far passed this, there is nothing that a faction "shouldn't have" at this point. Whats UD's thing? High damage melee beaters? All factions have those.

 

Some factions need a reset, like we got. Not all factions have access to everything, and not all factions can do everything. I said "readily available healing" E.G. Heal Mass, Magnify Beast ect.... We can have healing, but it comes at the cost of attacking(life siphon), being very slow over time(regen), being reliant on others to deal damage (acolyte), or positioning (Blood Magic)

We should not be passed anything imho. Each faction needs to be unique in certain aspects.

IS, and SL are very similar for instance. High Defense, and lots of healing. However they do it in very different ways.

IS has a buffing aspect for their defense, and has to actively use healing methods like Divine Heal, and Heal Mass. Well rounded defensibly.

SL has an innately higher defense, and regeneration on most of their champs, while having a buffing aspect that is less effective than IS.

In short.

IS

• Moderately high defense.
• Access to powerful buffs.
• Excessive Healing through Abilities
• Well rounded defensibly with their Faction Bonus.

SL

• An innately high Defense.
• Slow, but constant healing through Regeneration.
• Low access to buffs.
• Further Defense bonus from Faction Bonus.

They are similar yet different. This is just a small example and others can be made for the rest of the factions. I can not deny that others have melee bruisers, but in a 1:1 match-up, UD bruisers win for the most part. We also have access to more varieties of the bruisers than most factions.

• IS needs to be reset back speed wise. They are faster than intended for a faction that is to tanky.
• SL has spells that is encroaching on ST level utility, and have a damage mechanic that can very easily out-scale what most should be capable of.

This is just 2 examples.

 

Very much liking IMAGIRL'S latest suggestion...

Nefari Messenger

9 Dmg
6 Spd
1-3 Rng
1 Def
48 Hp

Base Abilities
Attack Magical
Drive
Ready 1

First Ability Line
Initiative 1 (Default)
Initiative 2

Second Ability Line
Expedite (Default)
Rebuke
Relieve
________________________________________________

Base cost to 76. With a choice of 76-81 depending on upgrades. Theoretically we could also have her upgrade path 2 at one of these 3.

AS ABOVE

But I am an old school simple rune bloke, so I might suggest a couple of tweaks...

Remove Ready 1
Change second ability to Regen 1/2/3

Don't know exactly what she would cost at that, but I like the look of her for the lower cost.

 

I don't understand what changes you want @Fentum At first glance the change you say seem to change her back to exactly what she is currently -1spd.

 

No Annex.
-1 speed
No life siphon but regen 3 upgrade option

I think that's about it in terms of changes from current rune.

And I do have fond memories of the global pacify when diplomats met, but that's a little crazy.

 

@Fentum your suggestion stills leave her with two stale upgrade paths of ability ranks. Definitely can't support it.

@IMAGIRL if you're concerned with style, Tormented is a way of nodding to a "don't shoot the messenger" way of thinking. Also, I don't care much for her being a Rogue. That makes the least amount of sense for her given her name and kit. I see her as a bossy demon lass with sadistic tendencies. She's in a position of false power given her purpose as proxy.

 

You called?

 

Typing from phone, it must have submitted while I was still typing, and then switched to edit mode.

 

Ah.

I see what you mean. Tormented would be both flavorful, and have synergy with relieve. Had a small discussion about damage. I think we can lower her damage to 7, and have it pay for tormented. Unfortunately dmg calculation & cost is a bit weird in UD. So I don't know for sure.

I myself prefer the simpler version with an updated UP2. Let me see what I can come up with for her. I think I will make a dmg, and psuedo support options.

 

I would prefer her like this.

Spoiler

________________________________________________

Nefari Messenger (Pseudo Support)

9 Dmg
6 Spd
1-3 Rng
1 Def
48 Hp

Base Abilities
Attack Magical
Drive
Ready 1

First Ability Line
Initiative 1 (Default)
Initiative 2

Second Ability Line
Expedite (Default)
Rebuke 3
Relieve
________________________________________________

Base cost to 76. With a choice of 76-81 depending on upgrades. Theoretically we could also have her upgrade path 2 at one of these 3.

• Expedite/Rebuke/Relieve
• Expedite/Regen 2/Relieve
• Expedite/Rebuke/Regen 2

I prefer the first, or third possibilities.

=================================================

Nefari Messenger (Damage Build) @Entrepidus Honestly might not mind this build myself.

7 Dmg
6 Spd
1-3 Rng
1 Def
48 Hp

Base Abilities
Attack Magical
Drive
Tormented

First Ability Line
Life Siphon (Default)
Logistics: Life Siphon
Lifedrinker

Second Ability Line
Relieve (Default)
Rebuke 3
Punishing Aura


Ok so.

Default of 73 with 63-83 depending on upgrades.

Spoiler: math

Original cost for her base stats without any abilities was 59. I removed -2 dmg, and -1 spd. To put her ~48.

Drive 10
Tormented 3

Total of 61

First Ability Line
Life Siphon (Default) 10
Logistics: Life Siphon 4
Lifedrinker 8

Second Ability Line
Relieve (Default) 2
Rebuke 3 4
Punishing Aura 12

Default of 73 with 63-83 depending on upgrades.