Self Identification - where does one draw the line?

I'd be more than willing to do so, but it'd be a derailment severe enough to actually get us onto an entirely different railway network.

Edit - @Geressen Huh, those actually look really cool. I was expecting some Jurassic Park knock-off's when I saw 'action figures', but those are pretty accurate, even down to the expected colour scheme.

 

My apologies for the repetition then. My eyes glazed over a lot of this thread for reasons I've already covered.

Not just can, has been (if not, the proponents of the nondiscrimination ordinances or whatever wouldn't have felt the need to bother).

The main concern I have with having specific laws (beyond infringing on an individual business' rights to determine bathroom usage) is enforcement, which I believe examples of possible abuse have already been posted.

Though I don't believe the law by itself would necessarily create harassment beyond that in the absence of such sentiments already being there.

 

*Person lines up to enter the women's bathroom.*

"Paper's please meine fraulein."


Yeah... that aught to go well.

EDIT:

I mean even before the Right in NC responded with new legislation.

 

I think there's very little to be said about such events other than pointing out that such laws bring out the worst in people and encourage discrimination. It's like watching Sikh's having to endure slurs directed at them for wearing turbans because Islamophobes can't differentiate between the cultural clothing of the two religions. They're not even the group that the person is hating on, but they catch flak because 'they look kinda like them'.

As with any group of people, there's variety. Speaking purely speculatively, I imagine there's a degree of diving to the opposite end appearance wise when an individual transitions fully. They've been held down in a gender role that is not their's, so the first chance they get the embrace the 'opposite'. It then becomes a matter of dialing in to where that person wants their appearance to be. For some, it will be the stereotypical masculine or feminine appearances, for others it won't be. It's all down to the person.

I think you're totally right about what the laws are pushing for, too. I doubt that either of the two people Gerben posted photo's of would actually be stopped and considered suspicious if they went into the bathrooms that didn't match their biological sex, but they'd be breaking the law if they did so. Instead, they're forced to go into the one that does match their biological sex, and more than likely draw a huge amount of attention for doing so, whilst feeling demeaned due to being essentially told 'it doesn't matter what you think you are, we say you are Male/Female'.

 

Geben sie Ihre Papieren!

Wast ist deine Geburtsgeslecht? WIR CONTROLIEREN DAS!

 

Most, but not all, and who is anyone to say otherwise? (Apparently the government in North Carolina, but I'm not on their side in this.)

 

The argument I've heard is about parents not wanting to explain why someone that is biologically a man is in the women's restroom. The trans people I know, both transgedner and transsexual, appear to be more like the gender they identify with and less like their birth gender. I feel I would have a much more difficult time explaining to my son why a person that by all appearances is a woman, but was born as a mad has to use the men's room vs explaining to my daughter why a person that by all appearances is a woman but still has a ***** is using the women's room.

 

The saddest part of this all I think is that the trans people who are being targeted are astronomically more likely to be assaulted in the restroom than any of the people they are supposedly assaulting.

 

I jsut don't see why everyone should conform to what is a tiny minority.

More importantly, I love how much attention this is getting. So meaningless and trivial, and the American media is making it out to be so important. There are much bigger issues than that.

 

... Conform to what, exactly? Nobody is looking to force Cis-Gendered people to do anything different here. This is a case of Trans. people wanting to be treated as the gender they identify as. It's not a complex issue, and I'm consistently amazed at how many people oppose the concept of letting someone decide for themselves who they are.

This I will agree with you on. LGBT+ issues are commonly used as scapegoats to draw attention away from other matters, which really sucks for people belonging to that community.

 

Qft

 

YEAH! Firk conforming to minorities wanting to be treated fairly!


I just don't see why we should allow black people to use the same facilities as white people!

 

Except it's not the same at all. Unless you are trying to say we should stop differenciating toilets altogether and just have toilets with no male/female labels.

 

I thought this was about not conforming to minorities.

anyways indeed we should but that seems to be a big step for some people so instead I propose we do not make laws banning certain groups from using a facility.

 

they think that businesses wont be pressured or sued or boycotted by special interest groups because the bathroom issue is no longer their choice

 

that is stupid, people should be able to boycot whomever they want!

I thought this was AMERICA!?

 

Comparing transgender issues to racial in justice is not a just comparison. transgenders have a psychological disorder they are not a racial minority. Stop virtue signaling you millennial hipster. It is an insult to people that fought for racial equality. Not the same at all. Just the lefts push to force us all to accept this as a societal norm. All this attention given to transgenders is going to earn them more persecution not the acceptance they are trying to receive.