So far, I understand the guys have their own agenda. They simply want to focus all their efforts into existing issues, and new runes. Vampyres, sadly, are a theme mostly overlooked. Since their dawn, they were never popular to begin with. Sure, some people complains about vamps, when it comes to Magus losing its BM-Bomb, and just becoming one expensive punching bag. Demonologist stopped being important after he lost Cast: Dark Pact, becoming just one expensive-yet-poor swarmer. Seeker of Blood on the other side was made in an Age where themes were made just because the Devs could, but then later scrapped them as soon as they got the next "big idea". I have to admit, the current Devs are really trying to push Bleed into the scene, but I have to be honest, with so much stuff around to counter them (FW and Inhibited available in Meta even to IS) a meager 3-6 life per bloodball is not really worth it if the whole concept consists on exposing champs to more damage than what they get from wasting 2 AP on picking up a blood ball. Vampyres simply lack range, movement, and as Masochism works better on demons, Nefari Guard was nerfed beyond recognition, and everybody and their moms now have a way to insta-destroy relics, as well as Inhibited, both Bleed and Vamps would really need a head-to-toe make up to become competent in a Meta which simply outsmarted them even before people started making forum threads about them.
Having been running mostly a bleed deck lately, I think you underestimate it. I think it is meta capable, or almost so. I think Vampires suffer because none of the devs have looked at them seriously since (or during) the revamp - it's a mess of a theme and there always seemed easier things to sort out first. Bleed just seemed cleaner to work with. Though if anyone has ideas about them it would be good to hear about them.
Actually, I was thinking, after playing with Demonologist. His gig is to convert dead things into Deep Elf Skeletons, and I think it would be actually synergyc (yes, now it's a word), to give Deep Elf Skeletons the bleed abbility. After all, swarm abbilities, are expensive, but unlike the swarm in other factions which summon strong champs, with a plethora of usesful skills for their theme, or themselves, how about the DESk become the poster boys of the Bleed theme by causing bloodied condition on whatever champion they happen to hit? TL;DR: Give Deep Elf Skeletons Bleed as base at no additional charge. Or at least, charge them in such a way which doesn´t end up in Demonologist and Demon Lich permanently shoeboxed.
I just think he should have summon imp be replaced with something else. Same for bloodguard and her pet.
Bloodguard having +10 HP and an bleed ability that pulls all current blood ball in maps # spaces closer to her. @Sokolov Demonologist could have have the one that the redcap twins have. Bloodlust I believe.
Well, yeah, I totally forgot that Bloodguard needed HP with urgency. The idea that a front beater with 6 SPD and only 40 is ridicule. You are right, she needs more life. And the Bloodlust on Demonologist sounds nice. Though, I admit he sounds more like a attack-support rather than full-attack.
Well he doesn't support with imps for a bleed them. Mischief is waste of nora if it can't be used at its best. It's like having a fire eater sheoul demon on a plain elves bg with no fire dmg being able to hit him. It's too conditional.
Bloodguard is pretty dysfunctional due to having the Pet forced on it. On the other hand... if the Pet had Bleed and was geared more towards the Bleed theme and allowing her to use Blood Dispersal, etc. then it would make more sense.
Agreed. What about demonlogist? I would also like to mention if Greater Pitspawn, A of Oblivion and Balefire need to be change or they're just that boring to use?
At least 2 of them had the same issues since they were released. Pitspawn is way to expensive, and can be easily covered by many other runes without sacrifing so much nora. All he does is being big, and stop counting. Aspect, well, Banish was never a popular thing. And then, he had to attack like 5 times before he can cast it. In the Dev brains back then, Oblivion Shield was going to cover him. But in practice, and unlike Serkan's insane range and teleportation, he was pretty much condemed to turn into the most popular shooting target for your opponent. Oh, and who cares if your opponent loses one killer champ, he can just summon something better next turn. Balefire is a sad thing, because I remember he was awesome. Now I can't recall what caused him to hit the shoebox, but I guess it was one of these cases where Devs got "a little bit way too creative". Maybe I'm assuming too much here, but I think making them playable would be to entirely rework them. Which I guess is harder than putting bleed on champs summoned by Blood champions at no cost.
Note that in regards to the Aspects, their design was originally alternative win conditions and none of them was meant to have early game impact. But agreed that Oblivion has never really worked. Balefire just got hit with the revamp, and no longer has like -20 nora modifier (it was 13 DMG base and 7 SPD basically, and now it is 10 DMG and 6 SPD) like so many champs in that era had, but the kit is almost exactly the same was it was pre-revamp, so it's largely just a cost thing if you thought he was awesome.
Is Oblivion runnable? It seems gimmicky, but either way, compared to some of the other Aspects, I always felt like it was the one that was least successful in fulfilling the design goals of the Aspects. EDIT: Fixed grammar
he's got some fairly good survivability and great offensive output. his cost however is a perfect example of whats wrong with the charge system. But aspect at the moment is more runnable than all but violence, life and infinity.
I wouldn't say that it's unsuccessful, it can function well as a damage dealer and does occasionally use its signature ability. It's a little outclassed by the ireguard which fulfills a similar role, but its not bad. The journey to oblivion ability could perhaps require a few less charges to pull off to see a bit more use.
I mean, Aspects were intended to be runes that, once they reached a certain point, they enabled you to win. i.e. your opponents had to kill them before they reached critical mass
i can see how they were like that originally. i'd say aspect of death has been taken the furtherest away of that role out of any of those units. But aspect of life and aspect of oblivion were just never even close to something like that.
I don't really think the costs system is bad. That it has it´s flaws where some stuff which could use a price increase is too cheap, while stuff which doesn´t have it is overcharged for something which serves a completely different purpose happens-like Greate Vampirism for example. I mean, so far, I think this whole discussion has directed itself to the same issue, costs. It's not a thing of abbilities, in most cases, but a thing that the stuff offered costs more than it should. Balefire Knight, too pricey for what he does. Pitspawn, stupidly expensive when you can cover it with something cheaper and better. Aspect, apparently, some people clings to him, but his costs is restrictive. Vampyres, all overcosted for what they have in comparison to other themes with the same or more amount of benefits. TL;DR: Everything mentioned in this post costs too much for what it offers. And maybe, Sheoul Magus could use a Bloodbind-like abbility which takes advantage on the amount of champs with Bleed and/or Bloodied condition.
