The fw problem

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by super71, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Oh yeah Frost Amp sucks as always, I'm at least glad that Ice Storm got nerfed. My main issue with SL is that Rabid no longer counters Regen and makes me do extra math.
     
  2. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    It's 40 nora to counter things that often cost less, AND it relies on having champions deployed worse, if you crutch on it (spirits vs a magic immune unit for example) an opponent can wait it out. Compared with soul bane or altar, I don't like it.

    That being said I'd include it in some bgs. But more out of necessity, I don't think it provides a strong value.

    I consider ED and Mobi to have exceptionally strong value, and maybe dark rising and despoil as well. Similar to things like shatter for UD, madenning echos, that boomerang thing, retribution, sacrifice. Any ST spell.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  3. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    The value doesn't come from being able to "counter" something. The value comes from your opponent playing something aggressively because they assume that its defensive abilities will keep it alive in order for it to remain a threat next turn. Soulreave is similar to cleansing mist in that it can turn your opponent's best moves into mistakes, which is a very powerful thing to have access to.
     
  4. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    There's also better loss of life options that can do that + more
     
  5. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    Please elaborate on that statement.
     
  6. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Reaper's Blade.

    I don't really agree with your argument above, your opponent is going to make use of their defensive capabilities wether they think you have a counter or not. If they don't use those abilities then you get to kill their champ without having to spend any nora at all, seems like a redundant point really. Of course that wouldn't apply to spells which actually cost them something for playing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  7. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    lol, 9 times out of 10 i would pick soulreave over reaper's blade and in that 1/10 time it'll only be due to some kind of gimmicky combo.
     
  8. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Are you incapable of commenting without being at least slightly *****y?
     
  9. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    eh, it's not like that's my intention. note that when I use the word "nub" it has an ironic connotation. if I said noob, then yeah, i'd legitimately be ***chy.
     
  10. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    I don't understand what you are trying to say here. I am talking about things like immunities and arrow eater. Your opponent is not going to consider whether their pincushion is within ranged doubletaps the same way they would with a fire elemental.

    Reaper's blade is a viable alternative to soulreave, but it is not demonstrably better.
    Reaper's blade is more expensive, and if your opponent is applying pressure you can easily be forced to deploy it on a non-optimal unit because that one can doubletap with it, while the better target might only be able to get one attack off the turn you really need it. Further, soulreave scales with your army, which means that it is effective on 2-front maps like new FW, nora glades, lava plains, etc.
     
  11. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I thought you were referring to the use of active abilities like Grant: Evasive and the idea of baiting them out or them being used to bait out Soulreave. I agree with you on Arrow Eater for sure, it's one of the more common things I'll burn a Soulreave on but I'd often find myself using Reaper's Blade instead because of the lasting value and spot burst.

    It absolutely is demonstratably better in certain situations. We went over some of the advantages of Reaper's Blade over Soulreave above and there are definitely enough to justify using it instead of Soulreave most of the time but with it maxing out at 50% hp you won't be able to one round a full hp impervious champ like Soulreave allows you to. I can certainly see why you'd prefer it in your Lich deck because of the scaling you mentioned.

    Each is just situationally more useful than the other but due to the fact Reapers' Blade is an equip that has lasting value and forces your opponent to remove it, provides a huge increase in damage on one champion and doesn't leave your other champs unnecessarily gimped and unable to apply on damage effects or damage relics I find it to be the more useful of the two. As long as the champ that you need a LoL effect for dies then it simply brings advantages that Soulreave does not, even if you aren't equipping it on the ideal champ.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  12. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    I think you guys are missing the point: soul reave and reapers blade are not faction defining spells as much as essence drain and Mobi are. Even if they were, I don't think it matters. The point is FW doesn't have better spells then other factions, and even if they did (I don't believe they do) they are a similar power level to other factions.
     
    potatonuts likes this.
  13. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    Honestly I tend to think of FW as a lot like Black in mtg, it's versatile and has an answer to almost everything, but usually at a higher cost. It has some other things, but most of its strength comes from how you balance your resources.
     

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