The refund spells

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by junithorn, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. junithorn

    junithorn I need me some PIE!

    Prot:

    Ancient Implications - 3 great abilities, refund if the champ dies. Great!

    Mark of Redemption - 2 great abilities and damage, refund if it dies. Great!

    Rite of Empathy - Not nearly as good as the two above but at least it has a realistic refund scenario than wrath.

    Balancing Act - Evasive 3 and speed, not as good as the others but still the better refund scenario than wrath.

    Wrath:

    Kiss of vex - Why on earth would the refund NOT be on death on a spell that makes them vulnerable? Refund if it doesnt dies is awful here.

    Smoldering Ashes - A minor effect. Refund if it doesnt dies is awful here.

    State of Confusion - Works with judgement? You'll NEVER get a refund on these spells.

    Oblivion hex - Just as bad as the UD one, Refund if it doesnt dies is awful here.

    The refund if it survives on offensive spells seems pointless, meanwhile the refund on buffs if they do die seems too good. I don't really get what happened here.
     
    SPiEkY, claydude5 and JellyBerry like this.
  2. Sealer0

    Sealer0 I need me some PIE!

    I agree, remove the refund.

    It's a stupid mechanic anyway.
     
    SPiEkY and Netherzen like this.
  3. Gorebucket

    Gorebucket Forum Royalty

    The concept was that these spells provide a refund only if they fail to accomplish their goal.

    If the Protectorate spells designed to keep a champ alive fail to do so, you get a refund. If they succeed, you don't.
    If the Wrath spells designed to assist kills fail to do so, you get a refund. If they succeed, you don't.
    Alternately, the Wrath spells can be used to impair a champ you don't intend to focus on right away for free.

    It makes perfect sense to me, though the effectiveness of the individual spells is up for debate.
     
    Leadrz likes this.
  4. claydude5

    claydude5 The King of Potatoes

    I hardly consider kiss of vex to impair a champion.
     
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Try reading the whole thing.
     
    BurnPyro and JellyBerry like this.
  6. limone1981

    limone1981 I need me some PIE!

    never saw a refound in any game with statebof confusion
     
  7. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Yes... nerf Implications... good...

    More seriously, yes, these spells are of drastically unequal power. The idea of a refund on failure makes sense, but the problem is that each of these is a different kind of failure. The Prot ones either get full duration value or a refund, while the Wrath ones get either a refund and full duration (leaving a champ alive) or neither -- Prot is more consistent. Additionally, it's more powerful to name a champion you control that your opponent then wants to avoid killing than to name an opposing champion that you then have to avoid, especially if you are applying a killing debuff to that champion. Strange mix for Wrath, the spells feel week.
     
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  8. Sealer0

    Sealer0 I need me some PIE!

    I've played some acid/fire sl decks and kiss of vex is not weak.

    Unless you consider 40% extra damage from all damage sources weak.
     
  9. junithorn

    junithorn I need me some PIE!

    Its not that the effect is "weak", its that the refund on the champ surviving making them vulnerable is really stupid.
     
  10. Sealer0

    Sealer0 I need me some PIE!

    The refund shouldn't exist on mark of redemption etc. anyway. The only reason you didn't see it used was because courage was so awesome.
     
  11. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    the idea is simple enough, if the spell fails to do what it's intended to do you get the refund.

    if you cast a defensive spell it's intended to keep the unit alive, thus you get the refund if they die.

    if you cast an offensive spell it's intended to kill the unit, so it lives you get the refund.
     
  12. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    I like the refund spells, the only problem I feel is that every faction does not have one and if they do many are much less effective as these 2. If every faction had a good refund spell then I would be happy.
     

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