Tough

Here is a list of every champion in the game with Tough: http://poxbase.com/ability/351

Of these champions, I see only 3 of them where Tough could potentially be problematic: Groble Rock Eater, Colossal Boa, and Fist of Bastion. A case could also be made for Grintmaw Bouncer, but I think his lack of damage is what holds him back. Addressing your OP, here is a list of champions that have 2+ DEF and ranks of Tough: http://poxbase.com/deck/cttcgIc7Mchzchacp=c97ctBcfxcg0ca3c1Vch4ct@cuucgdckjcdUcNcaPcyBcavcp3civ

Let's group these up a bit so they're easier to analyze.

The "Obviously Not an Issue" Group

- Darkmarsh Enforcer
- Deadwood Strider
- Faeguard Nullbeast
- Frostfall Tardigrade
- Gluttonous Overseer
- Guardian of the Circle
- Lodestone Armory
- Mastodon
- Obsidian Wing
- Scorpic
- Stitched Merged
- Strig Battle Ward

All of these champions are either pure tanks (meaning they don't offer much except innate defense and fortifying the front line; e.g. Enforcer, Faeguard), or have better upgrades worth taking (e.g. Tardigrade, Mastodon, Lodestone). A few of them, such as Battle Ward and Obsidian Wing also possess damage capabilities, but in order to maximize their ranks of Tough, you would need to run them at over 80 nora; a sizable investment for a melee champ, especially one with only 6 speed.

The "Potentially an Issue" Group

- Bloodhowler Alpha
- G'hern Razorback
- Goliath Fesh
- Chickenwing Alpha
- Minotaur Gladiator
- Moga Lord's Guard
- Mosharn the Barricade
- Pitfighter
- Putrid Creeper
- Snaptooth Crawmangler
- Swampguard Crusher
- Tortun Fishkisser
- Grintmaw Bouncer

These champions are either heavily tanky, with multiple built-in resistances (e.g. Razorback, Pitfighter, Crawmanger) or offer both tougness and damage capability (e.g. Fishkisser, Gladiator, Bloodhowler). The reason these champions are not a problem is because the ones that offer both toughness and damage are simply outclassed by better options; champions that are more efficient and fill the same role. For example, many meta UD decks don't run Minotaur Gladiator, even though he's got ranks of Tough, increasing damage, and even some CC. But he's not included anywhere but Minotaur decks because of his nora cost; why would I run him when I could just run the Fire Giant, who tanks better, is cheaper, and doesn't need to rely on Thirst for Battle procs to gain damage. Another example: why would I run the Fishkisser when I could run the Salaman Ninja, who is much more mobile, tanks ranged units until next week, and comes with better CC? Bottom line is, these units are niche picks at best, and the only reason they are potentially an issue is because of their innate tankiness in conjunction with other context-based effects (e.g. Putrid Creeper + Revel in Misery healing, Mosh + superchamp stuff).

The "Most Likely an Issue" Group

- Groble Rock Eater
- Colossal Boa
- Fist of Bastion

Groble Rock Eater has stellar efficiency, plain and simple. In full Construct decks there is no reason to take Tough, but outside of them (assuming you don't build him like a scrub) he's 57 nora for 58 HP, and that alone is enough to cause problems. Boa's issue is less with Tough itself and more with Tough + Colossal + Regen + massive HP pool. That said, Tough 3 on a Colossal unit is something that should never happen. Fire Giant was dealt with early enough, but Boa remains strong for some unfathomable reason. Fist of Bastion is all about Ride Down, and how ridiculously broken that ability is. When combined with such innate tankiness and a sub-80 nora cost, you're going to end up with trouble.


All this being said, aside from the above 3 champions, Tough is not a problem. I'd even go so far as to say that Tough is not the problem on any of them. Champions that have Tough are fine, but when you keep piling on defensive abilities in addition to ranks of Tough, you start to see an issue with how the champion is playing. I've seen KF player throw Boa straight into the middle of 5 or more champions with no support and no spells, and STILL have the Boa survive for at least 3 rounds. Champions in the second group are held back by context: how the player is managing their resources to deal with said champions, and what other factors are coming into play while the champion is around. Is the champion receiving spell support? Is it being boosted/enhanced in some way by a support champion? Are you positioning poorly so that Pitfighter can keep attacking and get Reflexes/Evasive 3? Did you move out of Swallow Whole range to keep his Goliath Fesh useless? Etc., etc., etc......

So you see, there is a lot more going on then Tough. If you were a better player, you'd see that, but as it is what do you expect the community's reaction to be when you post this garbage without any backup evidence or arguments whatsoever? And you have the audacity to call US trolls??? I pity you man, I really do...........

 

Thank you for the in depth post. At least you tried. Funny thing though is that at the end, you destroyed all progress you made at a positive post. No reason to even add that nonsensical bull ****. Yes, I have the audacity to call you children trolls because the first 80% of your post is what SHOULD HAVE BEEN POSTED IN THIS THREAD from the very beginning. GO READ THE OP. I never ONCE called Tough OP. It's just an excuse for pathetic losers such as you to have a chance to give back what you received in high school. Grow up, "man".

Just, get the hell out of here JazzMan. You're hardly the player you claim to be by poor attempts at belittling others.

 

@Baskitkase


tough is kill or die. stop of troll.

 

There is no possible way to retrieve that thread, is there? That was the best ever. Who was it that said that?

To the OP. Yes, tough on a few champs is a bad decision, but do you really expect someone to take you seriously after the kind of reputation you've made for yourself whether it be the way you talk to players in game and the incredible amount of racism you spew out? Yes, the trolls do deserve to be called losers or whatever, but JazzMan replied with quite possibly the best response to your 3 sentence proposition. Yeah, he may have insulted you at the end, but I'd say it's pretty acceptable considering you have ignored almost every reasonable post on this thread and instead decide to call everyone children, losers and trolls.

Stop acting like a damn child, make thought out threads with plenty of examples, quit raging at everyone in the lobby, and people will take you seriously. This is a community that wants the game to grow, but 3 sentence threads come out to look like QQ threads instead of an actual propostion.

 

There are a vast amount of threads with identical format to mine, yet they do not get trolled. This in no way shape or form looked like a "QQ" thread from the OP on. And what reasonable responses are you referring to btw? I believe there were 2 or 3, and those I did not respond in a negative way to at all. The only ones I did were the ones trolling, hoping to look "cool" in front of the community. The opposite was achieved.

Your first sentence proves that this thread is not a QQ thread. What you stated in the first line is almost verbatim to what I stated in the OP.

Thanks, and good day, sir.

 

Looking through every thing more closely, you did reply to most responses so I apologize for that.

Respect the community and they will respect you. I hate trolls also and it's disappointing that a lot of them are veteran players, but I do think your posts could actually become a constructive discussion if they were more elaborate and better prepared.

 

Serxic, god of gods.

 

I do too, and I apologize for not elaborating as much as I wanted to. I assure you I did, but a 7 day work week of 12 hours a day drains you, and putting that much time into a thread is just disgusting at that point. I was hoping other players would chime in positively, but I was proven wrong. Next time, I'll just slowly but surely piece together a thread that is more elaborate.

Thanks for not being a d**k.

 

Just a protip if you're intention is to have elaborate and constructive discussions: don't flame people, because I feel like you've marked yourself as "one of those guys on the forums" and people don't take your posts that serious when there's a lot of namecalling in it.

Just food for thought.

 

You must have an extremely sad time in high school.

 

Lol @ hypocrisy. I just don't care what someone like you thinks of me... over an internet forum... for a game... grow up JazzChild. You're not proving anything right now.

But the name calling comes from the opposing party... soooooo... whose in the wrong here... me? Just because of my reputation? That just seems like poor judgement to me, in all honesty. Never started anything with this thread. Never called anyone out. Never said anything derogatory. All I said was that Tough on some champions because of the combination of it with other stats such as good defense and high hp and high dmg is absurdly OP. That's it.

 

Hey kid, stop calling everyone a kid. It's annoying, got it kid?

This isn't xbox lol

 

He should L2HS, prob got curb stomped the first time around.

 

You've been just as guilty. I'm just saying, it's not helping your case.

 

Double standards don't help either. If you troll, then you should expect to get trolled back. Karma's a b***h.

The first response I gave, the very first after the OP, was chill. Seriously go read the entire thread. If you f**k with a bull, you'll get the horns.

 

LOL you're SOOOOOO cool, brah!!

 

What if it's a Yorkie who thinks he's a bull, what do you get then?

 

ok but here's the thing about that

if you think that they're "trolling", and that you're "trolling" (you rather heavily implied that you were) in response to that, why would they not continue the chain?

it's by nature not a positive experience, effect, or whatever the hell you want to call it. it's a positive feedback loop of negativity that you are willfully perpetuating under the assumption that it's a righteous or manly or some other stupid bullshit thing to do


why.

 

He's a yorkie with horns, he doesn't answer to you.

 

I should have worded that better, but no way do I think I'm trolling... in my own thread...

Lol it really doesn't matter what I say or how right I am, because you guys won't admit you're wrong out of some self righteous facade, and other people will back that person just for the sake of trolling. F**k that.

Lmao manly? I don't need your gratification over the internet. I'm pretty secure with who I am. Now an individual like Garr is someone you should direct your posts of correction to. When someone can't admit they're wrong, they become poison.

Stop trying to correct me or give me "advice" on what I should have said. Matter of fact is that I said nothing wrong until I was provoked. F***ing go talk to the trolling ****s in this thread and community. All of the reasoning that you posted is just plain stupid. Your* reasoning is "I know you are but what am I!" Sounds like you fellas are still in high school.