So the problem isn't that the mechanic isn't interesting, is that the payoff isn't large enough to care about it? Thus, since allegedly they don't have the tools to actually get the payoff, they are not interesting.
I see your time as well used. You set them up such that they can be good later down the line, but as it the case with a lot of low-rune themes, they just need to bulk up, and eventually have a deeper bench. Maybe prioritize them over frost amp or elementals for a bit?
Sundered is the de-buff which has the biggest impact and it coming last represents no benefit whatsoever, should probably be the second de-buff. Distracted being removed is a good call, though. In essence, yes. In addition to that they have little else to offer in comparison to other champions so it's kind of pointless to use them in general.
I know this was the intention and I can see them with the changes being made (which I insist haven't been exactly BAD and I'm glad they have gone through) but long term doesn't look like something they can do and there are obviously a million things that can cripple this plan within seconds. I can't stress enough that I am actually glad changes have gone through and things are happening, and by no means I want to make it look like you have done everything wrong. I just think of it as as something that's much needed to spice things up and despite the endless changes they don't seem to living up to their potential. Because there IS potential.
Ok, I can buy that. The solution then would be to make Ferren Focus way stronger than it is now (removing Distracted is probably not enough), and also give them additional tools to make the mechanic easier to trigger. So right now they mostly rely on Swap-style relocates and soft-CC (Majestic, Frozen, etc.) to pull it off, so we need to improve that. So, a quick potential list of changes for Ferren: Change Ferren Focus to - Frozen, Slowed, Stunned (this is much closer to the old Ferren Focus from pre-revamp, which was considered very strong by many players) This iteration removes Sundered in favor of scaling-CC Not sure if Stunned is a good idea, but it is certainly a stronger payoff, and one that could be easily pulled off given how easy it is to apply Frozen and Slowed Warcry - For AP generation and DMG Force Barrier - To keep people locked in so they can be easily Ferren Focus Relocate: Foe - To easily trigger Focus Relocate: Ally (Ferren have access to a lot of Relocates and Movement abilities already, but maybe they aren't good enough compared to Relocate: Ally) Additional consideration Force Detection and Shatter on base for some Ferren (not sure which, a quick glance doesn't reveal good candidates that aren't already ability bloated) Adjust Ferren Hideout so it is a cheap form of spot-relocate (maybe 25 nora and restrict to Ferren only) Make a couple "OP" ferren that are one-man armies so they have lynchpin runes to play around I don't like this, since I like that they all have a similar stat line and reflects their feel, but this would definitely help them by having some champs that can stick around a bit more and be the keystones (think Ferren Alpha ala Kanen Alpha)
Which Ferren specifically have this problem and how would you suggest fixing them? I look at each of them and find a good reason to run them in a Ferren deck, but there's always room for improvement.
Unfortunately that's not possible. The next 2 expansions are already locked up for the most part, and I don't see how a couple new runes would help the underlying issues being discussed here. The racial is bad and they are bad in general is the argument, so they need an overhaul, not a couple new runes. I feel like I completely screwed up. I felt like the changes made Ferren 100% playable and super interesting to play and was super proud of the changes. The fact that I was so wrong means I completely failed. I literally spent days on Ferren adjusting them and testing them. This is a massive failure and there's no way to sugarcoat this. Likewise with Salaman, the fact that no one even plays them now is so sad and I feel like I wasted an entire expansion cycle on adjusting these runes for little gain.
I don't like the art style of ferren so i won't ever really play them and be able to tell you much about that. I can say with salaman though that they are an effectively working equip deck which historically has always either been a failure or stupidly overpowered. I think the new exo being difficult to gain is somewhat responsible for the lack of salaman play and they'll likely pick up play with the F2P players once it's forgable while the pay players will move onto whatever the next set of runes encourages the most. So yeah don't feel bad on yourself aye cause i think (and some people probably agree with me) think you're doin a top notch job.
I actually quite like the salaman changes, and I think the lack of play is simply a reflection of the small player base than anything else. I mean how many somewhat effective to effective bgs does FS have at the moment? Meta, Semi-aquatics, psychics, boghoppers, and snaptooth are all pretty playable right now. Poison might be as well, but I honestly do not know. So you have all of these themes that players can choose from. And then on top of that you have people (like me) who play different factions, which is also going to cut into the overall numbers of people who are playing across the different themes. Combine this with a small player base, and people who are just focusing on one theme, and the fact that you haven't been seeing a ton of people a theme can't really be seen as evidence that your revamp has failed.
True enough. In fact, to help make sok feel better I am going to play nothing but salaman for a while.
It's true, part of the problem is that the game is stretched pretty thin trying to support SO MANY different things.
Yeah, that comes with 8 factions, and a bazillion themes for each faction. Things are a little bit better with factions that have a lot of cross-functional themes, like the various amps. With those at least you can release runes that support multiple themes at once. If new themes are added to the game, which seems inevitable, it seems like they mostly should be functional in this particular way. So for example, FS has an increasing quantity of monks, and this seems like a good direction to go in, as you can release things like the boghopper thunderfist and firk paraform which support their particular themes while also establishing the foundation for future theme-supporting runes. Another alternative is racial hybrids. Boghopper snaptooths anyone? (PS, release more non-firk psychic runes. . Jellebrium tooooooo.)
Salamans are in a great spot ATM. Theyre lack of play doesn't reflect on your changes , just that they're from the most recent expansion and the mood of the playerbase. Tldr you did a great job dont worry
I think the main problem here is probably that you can't touch them all at once, so you rely on players feedback on the council for "theme adjustments", and then things go to space because most of them have no idea what they are doing. And then we are back at the center of my pet peeve here, because your council has too much of: bad players who are too active; good players who aren't active enough. This is just my point of view, not trying to convince anyone of anything. /shrugs
