Is it possible for collective to gain preordained?

In most of the cases it ends up not being used simply because it doesn't grant the bonus on deploy and by the time you draw it most of your units that would benefit from it are already deployed.

 

Sure, if the rune pays the value of Preordained rounding up.

 

+5 cost. Can't be used in splits?

 

Preordained is 8 nora ^

 

Yes. But the rune is awful without preordained so rounding down seems better than rounding up.

 

If it were awful, why do people use it?

 

It's a relic, not a champion

meaning that ability costs don't apply in the same way IMO

 

+5 and lower its hp

 

To be honest, it's already got 20 hp so Seism takes it out and it's not like the player is gonna put it anywhere other than near his shrine. It probably won't matter in the end.

I'm down with rounding up, not down

 

Does it' really need a buff?

 

Who runs a rune that is so hit or miss? Right now, it's not worth altering your battlegroup in order to maximize the effects of this rune as you can or can not draw it early enough, you are better off using multiples of races and running a constantly useful relic.
This simple proposition would encourage a new kind of battlegroups that may make the game more interesting, so I don't really understand people opposing it, does anyone has an argument to be against making this rune playable? how does that argument apply to statue of xulos, totem of the muses and tribal hut?

 

Well it's quite simple really.

Totem of Muses - 40 nora - Relies on YOUR MOGAS to die, has to be placed in a font. Pretty much gives +1 damage to Surge units. (Mainly postitive, can be a negative)

Tribal Hut - 25 nora - If this were a relic that affected a "good" theme it would be considered OP and nerfed. Currently it gives out a 10 nora ability to 8 champs, assuming you run those champs. The reason this relic got preordained was because Cyclops are a pretty weak theme. As a theme gets developed more, it tends to lose its crutches. I bet you 2000 shards that this rune gets nerfed in the future.

Statue of Xulos - 25 nora - Gives +1 damage and +2hp to one champion for every 10 hp it has. Every 5 turns = +1 damage and +2 hp.

If you compare the Collective to Statue of Xulos, the first champ deployed after the Collective already benefits more than Xulos from Statue of Xulous. By the time 5 turns passes, The Collective player can deploy a champion with a different race, +2 damage and +5 hp again. That's +4 damage and +10hp compared to +3 damage and +6hp. The race clause is a downside yes, but it's not big enough of a downside to warrant the stats it gives.

This relic encourages splits. It's like a warbanner for splits (warbanners being stronger because they give the benefit no matter what).

This relic is good enough to be played. I see The Collective more than I see any of the other 3 relics you mentioned that's for sure. Duodoroga and Mintdude are 2 players who come to mind that use(d) this relic.

 

Kilstuforf plays a Collective deck too

 

Agreed, buff Statue of Xulos.

Just don't do this:

 

I didn't intend to compare the powerlevel or usability of the runes I mentioned, I just asked for an argument AGAINST it getting preordained and then how that argument applies to these other relics.
When a relic enables a theme and requires to be deployed in order to function, it's only natural that it gets preordained, xulos statue is the best comparison, as you wouldn't deploy it otherwise.
Your argument is that it encourages splits? or that the benefits are too strong for the cost?

 

Both. The argument against it getting preordained is that it's strong and good. The other runes mentioned are not strong nor good without preordained.

 

Now that the concerns are voiced in a workable way, I will try and outline possible workarounds.

I think the relic should have preordained and be balanced around it, that would allow for consistent deckbuilding and would decrease the chances of a dead slot.

The current rune is 25 nora, 20 hp and collective struggle (permanent +2 damage +5hp to champions that don't share a race with an already deployed friendly)

The proposition is adding preordained for 5 nora, but this is seen as too strong.

So there are several possible solutions I can think of in order to have preordained and avoid excesive efficiency, without changing the collective struggle ability that may be a problem:

1) Cost of 35 nora, 20 hp, preordained, collective struggle = simple, but 35 nora is some tempo hit at the start of a match.

2) Cost of 25 nora, 20 hp, preordained, mercenary, collective struggle = this solves the long term efficiency issue of this kind of buffs and keeps the tempo hit low.

3) Cost of 25 nora, 20 hp, preordained, collective struggle, "loses 3 hp everytime a friendly champion is deployed" = similar to the above.

 

Number 3 might be ok if the buff isn't permanent.

 

Nobody would pay for a temporary buff.

 

Maybe make it +1 dmg and +5hp?