Yeah his art and sprite both say magic , i don't like magic amp on him though k'thir has enough of that and relics. Everything else looks nice....
i'm going to come off as nit-picky but only cause it involves my favorite theme haha. Bowmage is an archer first that happened to be trained in the magic arts. Therefore he should be more arrow than magic or 50/50. He augments his arrows and other champs with his magic but he's an archer first cause that's the career he chose while in college during a lord of the rings marathon. This was supposed to a reply to karma's post lol. doing this off my phone...
From the lore he is equally adept at archery as he is with magics. Perhaps he is more of a generalist? By that I mean he's dabbled in archery and in magics but is a master of neither? At any rate, I'm glad Bowmage is one of the targets.
@Karmavore If we're queuing up another set of changes, sharing what you submitted or are preparing to submit for patch #4 would be very helpful. There were a number of suggestions we, as a group, hadn't come to an agreement on and knowing which direction you decided to take will indicate what kinds of ideas you're likely to consider going forward. For example, @Osidan just recommended Rascal Fairy for buffing when he's already included (I think?) for patch #4. Having an updated list would help us avoid redundant suggestions and better focus our efforts
All in all Karma i've said before good work i and anyone else who plays kthir appreciates you asking the community of kthir to suggest ideas.
Haha thank the gods someone agrees 2-3 range is horrendous especially on seeker. Boa without colossal and scale armor instead seems like the best nerf for him so he is still playable but not over the top as he is now.
Garu Hurler - (BUFF) [9 DMG | 5 SPD | 2-4 RNG | 1 DEF | 55 HP] Changes: Remove Seige -1n // Remove Stone Bomb 2/3 // Add Preperation // Add Logistics Flanking // Add Pulverize 2 // Add Punish Path 1 = Hurl Boulder +4n | Preparation +10n | Stone Bomb 1 -2n Path 2 = Logistics Flanking +5N | Pulverize 2 +6N | Punish +6N (Default upgrades = Stone Bomb 1 -2n+ Punish +6n @ 69N Reasoning: One of the main reasons behind Garu not being successful is their lack of RNG. Currently we have Garu Shaman/Garu Medium both do different things; but are lacking the dmg capacity to qualify as a legit RNG'd unit. With this change Garu Hurler becomes a pivotal unit. Colossal Boa - (NERF) [10 DMG | 5 SPD | 1-2 RNG | 1 DEF | 60HP ] Changes: Colossal from Base -12n // Add Scale Armour +8n // Remove tough 1/2 // Add Fearless/Resilient // -5hp // -1def // Path 1 = Tough1 -3n | Fearless +2n | Resilient +6n Path 2 =Regeneration 1/2 (Default upgrades = Tough 1 -3n + Regen 1 -3n @ 72N Reasoning: Colossal Boa is currently doing a lot of the frontline work in K'thir, having colossal, tough 3, 2 def on base is way to much for a lot of opponents to deal with. I suggest toning down his defensive capabilities a bit by removing Colossal and adding Scale Armour, taking away access to tough 3. He'll still have the ability to mitigate DoT's via Resilient or having fear immunity via Fearless. At least the user has the option to choose how he can be ran. Conclave Warden // Sun Blossom Just an easy ability swap here, moving Conclave away from a support/frontline to Tank/Frontline as for Sunblossom Being Support/RNG, which is where both champions SHOULD be. Abash TO Conclave Warden +10n / -10n for Foment | Sunblossom Foment TO sunblossom +10 / -10 for Abash. Ancestral Avenger - (Nerf) [DMG: 17 | SPD: 7 | RNG: 1 | DEF: 2 | HP: 71 ] Remove Vuln Magical from base (-8n) | (ABILITY COSTING CHANGES NEED TO APPLY WITH THIS PATCH, PLEASE!) Titan from -8 TO 0 | Loyalty from +2 TO +7. Nora cost increased from 96 TO 119 @ +23n (no nora modifications, please!) This eliminates the fact that I can drag + drop to win. He becomes a tempo hit, which is where a champion like this needs to be, situational. Not a constant force no matter what. Fae Enchantress- RNG changed from 4-5 to 1-2. DMG increased from 5 to 7. HP increased from 32 to 36 SPD reduced from 7 to 6Fairy Dust removed from base. Spellsurge: Fairy Dust and Shadowstrike added to base. Body Jumper added to first upgrade path. Fae Enchantress - (BUFF/Kit Change)[ DMG: 7 | SPD: 6 | RNG: 1-2 | DEF: 0 | HP: 36 ] Base- Attack: Magical (0n), Flight (+6n) , Shadowstrike (+12), Spellsurge: Fairy Dust (+4), Summon Pristmatic Crystals (+10n) Fragile Flight (-5n) Upgrade Path 1- Body Jumper (+6n), Soften (+10n), Tempo (+3 n) Upgrade Path 2- Evasive 1 (+3n), Evasive 2 (+5n), Evasive 3 (+7n) Estimated Cost Range- 63-74 Reasoning: I wanted to somehow make another melee in fae, DMr's change to Voil Infernal inspired me to do this. I really like the way her new kit has turned out, having access to a melee harasser is really important, and most of her abilities fit her enchantress title. Body jumper is still subject to change, I either wanted trail crystal on her or body jumper. But I think Trail: Crystal is a but much, with giving her shadowstrike. Rascal Fairy - (BUFF) [8 DMG | 6 SPD | 3-4 RNG | 0 DEF | 34 HP] Changes: Remove Shadowspawn -7n (Base)// Remove Initiative 1 -3N // Remove Shadow Strike +2 // Add Sapping Strike // Add Mark // Add Shadowspawn P2 +7 // ADD FRAGILE FLIGHT (NEW) Path 1 = Knockout +10n | Mark +5n | Sapping Strike +5n Path 2 = Initiative 2 +3n | Shadowspawn +7 | Stealth +4n (Default upgrades = Knockout +10n+ Shadowspawn +7n @ 75n Reasoning: I really like this change to the Rascal, reducing his range some greatly decreases her cost and adding in the option of having sapping strike do the range tapping is a nice change. It gives Fae access to more pseudo-melee abilities which is where they really struggle, with fragile flight again giving discounts across the board it proves beneficial to fae being a lot cheaper. The new Rascal gives total control over upgrades, she could be ran in any way and still be worth the slot. Garu Hunter - Buff - [ DMG: 12 | SPD: 6 | RNG: 1 | DEF: 1 | HP: 48 ] Changes: Remove Nemesis: Enraged Grizzly (+20n) // Remove Herbivore -6n // Remove Leverage: Beast -10n // Add Detection 3 (BASE +6n) // ADD Leverage Garu +10n Path 1= Forage | Hibernate | Protective Path 2= Blitz | Leverage: Garu |Hunter Protectorate (Default Upgrades = Hibernate +1n + Leverage Garu +10n @ 70N This is exactly what we're looking at for PCR4, thing's are finalized. But as always it's subject to change, from Gedden's perspective.
can we give regen 3 to boa since he lost scale armour i think additional rank of regen not going to make much difference otherwise i agree completly What about Falconer?
Sad for Boa...Big time overnerf. I know he was good...but that much nerfs makes him look like a snake charmer pet. You aren't supposed to go Full Tanglefoot. The shoebox hath missed thee Mr. Boa. Well, I guess Deadwood Strider is still a thing... 12 Dam, 5 spd, 1 rng, 2 def, 50 hp, Resist physical 2, Boon of the Undead, Rabid 3, Entangling attack, plus Take root, at 73 nora ...compared to 10 5 1-2 1 60 scale armor Tough 1 regen 1 Lethargic consume at 72 nora....yeah In case math is hard, Strider hits for +7 damage over boa(counting rabid), turns off their healing and ensnares them, and is 1x1, and isn't lethargic. Also Boon includes fearless, immunity disease and 40% poison resist, plus 20% more nora from globes.
Unfortunately scale armour is easier to go around than colossal so i think it might sandbag it a little but a nerfs are needed
I'm seeing crazy again. If this "fragile flight" thing goes through Im loosing any kind of hope I already didnt have on the council. Not to mention, trying to buff Bowmage to fit Karma's magic amp deck. Jeez. Edit: not to mention, all the "suggestions" made by either karma or people here do not take into consideration how the changes will interact, balance wise, with other factions. Its just more of the "I think this is cool, I think this isnt", and it is absolutely mindblowing that balance is made this way.
I'm a lil' disappointed that zero adjustments were made since the previous list, but my issues with these changes remain the same. I'd call it a 50/50 patch in that half are solid, but the other half are questionable enough that I can't help but feel like we'll need to go back and try again. Just like I did with FW Worms, I'll probably focus on Faeries exclusively after the patch goes live to provide context for my concerns.
Id just want to say I have nothing against Karma nor do I think hes doing a bad job - I just think that, as any guy who doesnt develop games as a living, his judgment is clouded by his own agenda. Having players as developers is a no go for me, for the reasons I stated multiple times and in this thread.
Valid points. As a reminder, though, this is how the developers want to do balance patches (for better or worse). Any judgements are for them. Karma is merely volunteering his time to help out a game he is dedicated to. Everyone is partial to their favorites, which is an inherent downside of this system. Hopefully the devs will have a good enough grasp of the game in a few months where these type of patches won't be needed. I think the PCR worked best when it saw runes before they were released and voiced their concerns. Edit: I think a better version of these balance patches would involve Gedden mentioning what he wants to buff/nerf and have the PCR give input. Until then, though, this is how the devs want the balance patches done. Buff Bowmage!
Trust me no one is happier that we are buffing bowmage. But since we are going off lore, bowmages are trained by Lilim and Malrese? I think I spelled her name correctly haha. Anyways, they train archers, not wizards. Which leads me to believe that even though the bowmages may know magic they will always be archers first and wizards second. Like I said in my previous post they can be 50/50 but that's only at the most extreme version. As you can tell by these posts I don't want bowmage to turn into a wizard or be primarily a wizard :/
The fact that he does this on his own time is a plus in my eyes. Would him being paid change your view on Karma? He would still be the same person, same agenda (as you put it, if he even has one)but , the only difference is that he would now be doing it as a living. Would he then be qualified to do the job? Do you see my point? It's silly to believe that a person is suddenly qualified to do something simply because they are being paid. He's doing a good job just like you said and he is bringing up the topics in the KF forums so we can all pitch our ideas, including yours. We notice the stuff that is broken and we discuss how we can fix. I'm sure they do the same in the council, they check each other on the buffs they propose as well as the nerfs. At least I hope they do haha. P.S. And remember he is doing this all for free!
There doesn't seem to be a checks and balance system. I don't think the other factions would've let IS get so many buffs
Sadly Balance is un-achievable in PoxNora. So it boils down to "Is this cool or; is this not cool. You can't buff/nerf a Rune with 2000+ Runes/2000+ abilities in the game, that's to many variables to consider. The only option at that point is to lower the ability # to around 100. Which leaves the game super stagnant and extremely boring/rudimentary. What you're suggesting for Balance would take 4 weeks to buff a single rune. With everything to consider. Our only option at this point is to cycle the meta, cause I strongly feel Balance is never going to be a thing. We can come close.. But someone's always going to complain.. and Someone's always going to agree. For the most part this is completely true, and thanks for not trying to slander my character. Koodos for that. Moving on; My bias is a thing to consider. I love K'thir forest, I want to see it achieve. But looking back at what I've done, I've always tried to bring down the heavy hitters. Granted they may not have been all in one go, and I can be held accountable for that, but I'm trying to do my best to cycle everything around, without going to over board on the Overnerf/OverBuff scale. The only thing I feel I've done wrong so far, was 1. Overnerf; Gnarlwood Grappler and 2. Not get my updated PCR4 in sooner. But oh well. I'm human, and again.. I'm doing my best with the tools I have available. If you have any future issue's Pede stay tuned to my threads, cause I'd love to have some extremely negative (slightly constructive) criticism in there.. I thought I had an extra week with the PCR4 dates, but everything was handed in to Gedden. I came back to update, and it was already to late. So I apologize. That said I do feel this patch will revive the two themes aimed at, and hopefully take some steam out of Boa/AA. No on the Regen, I feel this nerf is substantial as it is, plus I can't edit PCR4. Falconer is going to be one of the PCR5 nerfs, along with Elven Strategist. Thank you for the support. Same to you @Xirone as always. I honestly can't agree with you at all, Boa in it's current state is beyond absurd. Scale Armour is just 25% less protection, so vs 2x2 it's actually a buff. I feel this "nerf" leaves him at level state, and very close to the line of balance. That's my honest opinion, no dis-credit to you.
