Discussion in 'Underdepths' started by Sokolov, Mar 29, 2017.
*Disclaimer I am old returning player and haven't played much lately*
I really like 3 as an ability for us. It gives a distinctive feel and would encourage you to let your guys get hit for a boost. Tho maybe +1 is not enough...
Wait a second....
Arrow eater and elusive are similar enough to change or get rid of one but not riposte, and arrow throw ? I was always told we kept a lot of abilities for flavor, and this completely goes against everything i've understood about pox decision making.
If it has to be changed i'd go for proposal 3, reduce enemy ranged damage by 4 for each arrow eater champ in aoe 3, if their are more than 2 champs in the aoe with arrow eater they gain unstoppable. My thoughts for this one are it makes ud play a different way than it normally does, and eliminates annoying stuns form other factions.
I agree riposte and arrow throw should get changed to arrow eater.
but that's not what he said...
So... Hmm... I actually really like the idea of trying to make Arrow Eater more thematic.
To start, I would probably change Arrow Eater on a lot of non-UD champs to Elusive (as long it makes sense).
I like the idea of Arrow Eater being a combination of Evasive 3 and Enrage (but only for ranged). I do think Proposal 2 has the most merit to it, while Proposal 3 looks like something that could become its own ability to be used for the Vothsair. With the 2nd proposal, I would have it be -50% ranged damage, +1 AP when hit by ranged, and +the damage resisted as damage for... 2/4 turns?
My thoughts on the flavor being "UD is often about gain from pain".
I do understand where a lot of people are coming from with not wanting to even think about changing it. But I dislike the idea of hard-counters anyway, as I feel they restrict design and tactical choices (including deck building). But I also know that many people disagree with my opinions on those things, so...
Please leave old Pinnie alone.
I don't think this is something that absolutely has to be consolidated as long as the tooltips clearly state that attacks against Arrow Eater are absorbed and attacks against Elusive miss. Though if you felt it absolutely necessary then option 2 would be the best IMO.
Yea, this is a tough one. I don't feel strongly one way or another, but there is a part of me that doesn't like having 2 abilities that are so similar in function/goal.
That's one of the beautiful things, though—having similar options. They're already balanced in their Nora cost, and have thematic rooting. There may even come a time when having Proposal 2 or 3 as a new ability would spice things up and give newer players more access to solid, ranged-damage counters. I feel like Champions with access to one, but not the other balances those Champions ever-so-slightly...
Agreed. To me, they are thematic. Salaam is elusively dodging and spinning whilst Pincushion just sits and soaks it up.
If you do consolidate it is worth considering which is the better ability:
On one hand elusive does have the text saying 'miss' come up, and because that is common it is easier to recognize what that means.
On the other hand, loads of abilities and conditions cause missed effect, and these often only trigger once - like dodge - so it is harder to attribute what is happening to a single source.
In favour of arrow eater- only one thing causes the arrow eater animation, so when you attack an arrow eater then you can more easily attribute it to that ability (it would be even better if it had some text come up saying 'nom nom' though).
On the other hand it isn't explicit that this means you didn't do damage, and so a newbie can often attack several times before realizing what is happening.
It would be great if at some point there could be a pass of combat animations to make them more explicit as to what is happening, and possibly include more text, but I know that would take a lot of programmer time.
No, no, "om nom nom."
The Arrow Eater animation and sound are among the best; it'd be a shame to see them go away, under any circumstance...
Arrow Eater does have counters:
1. Loss of Life
2. on-attack effects that don't require damage
Separate names with a comma.